BARTER TALK 2
Yesterday, I said to get silver, post haste. It might just be more expensive than gold one day, the supply being an estimated ten times gold to silver. Here is what I’d propose, since not all of us have extra funds falling out of our ass. Look at the price of gold. Ask yourself how much would be a minimum store of wealth. Then buy that amount of silver. It is a far better bet than crypto-currencies. If all you can swing is five ounces, and that silver was worth $2,000 an ounce one day ( since gold is currently undervalued at $1300 ), problem solved.
There is SOOOoooo many other items that have a much higher utility than gold or silver. Because precious metals are a vehicle to transport wealth across a Dark Age, from when it has monetary value because of international trade to once that dynamic once again starts back up ( Dark Ages being characterized by essentially zero trade due to lack of a monopoly on force caused by a lack of a surplus of energy ). All other items that hold an immediate survival value for you, your family and your tribe are much more valuable than precious metals, in the short and immediate term.
Silver only has a LONG term value. When village fights village over land for livestock, when each village must depend on its own immediate environment for ALL of its needs, silver will never lose its value but it can also NOT be used. There is no one to trade with. Remember, silver and gold are valuable only because historically everyone accepted it as a global, universal trading currency. Without trade, it is a currency only good for hoarding. It NEVER loses its value, but that doesn’t mean it is always immediately tradable.
Too many survivalists lose sight of this distinction. One side says “you can’t eat gold” and the other side argues “gold never loses its value”, but both forget that the UTILITY of that gold is variable in time. A young fertile female pleasing to the eye is always valuable, but without a suitable male with a bride price to marry her, you are stuck feeding the bitch. Understand? Gold has a holding price even if it never loses value. So don’t look at hoarded silver as being worth X. Look at it as wealth to be passed down, and forget about it.
Look to other items for barter. And only stock barter items that you yourself can use, so that they are never a burden to own. You could say ammunition, and one day that rimfire brick you bellyached about because it now costs two and a half times its pre-2008 Great Depression price just might one day be an actual Bride Price in and of itself. But I also look at ammunition as being a tool for your future role as a warrior in the tribe ( ignoring our advanced age, obviously ).
If you barter ammo, you could be hurting your future job performance ( you want to be the LAST guy in your band of brothers, AND your enemies warrior group, to have to switch from smokeless powder to an inferior weapon ). However, look at your water filter. You can’t drink more than say, one gallon a day. You could filter, and then sell that second gallon, but trust me on this, you do NOT want to piss off a fellow tribe member by being mercenary on certain things. Like food or water or shelter.
In a tribe, most things are communal, with only a few being open to barter. You can save up for a bride, or buy extra horses, or give gifts, but you don’t mess with the basics of survival. Defense and eating are reciprocal, communal, they are NOT open to the free market or to the forces of greed. You don’t charge someone’s grandmother for life saving herbal medicine. Just use common sense here, dammit. Think barn raising, think communism in its positive aspects. The guy you make a profit off of might one day question if he should save your life.
So, no, you don’t make yourself a for profit water company. But it should be okay to sell a water filter ( sell, barter, gift, same thing ) if it brings about labor saving, leisure or luxury ( as opposed to a perceived life saving function. They don’t NEED to buy your purified gallon of water, but the perception is you are profiting off of selling a life saving item. The filter is just a convenience item, and they aren’t making any more ). Don’t look at these things logically. That isn’t how people think. Look at it emotionally, as they do.
Anyway, back to stocking barter items. A water filter won’t be used as ammunition will. You never know when a surprise enemy attack takes place, but odds are you are only drinking that one gallon a day. You can more realistically calculate how long a filter will last, and then determine what filters you can barter. And if you screw up, you can always just charcoal/sand filter and then boil the water. All is not lost if you miscalculate. Running out of ammo, on the other hand…oopse. Not to say your filter will be accepted as barter, but odds are good.
And, except for this little dip we currently see ( my best guess is the bankers are forcing the price below production cost to cover their out of control leverage silver derivatives with physical, and the mines have no choice as loans are due ), for a very long time the price of an ounce of silver, delivered, and the price for a Sawyer water filter ( the ten’s of thousands of gallons type ) were pretty close. Rather than buying more silver, to barter, you spend the same to barter an item you can use and that can save your life.
Don’t misunderstand. Filters are not going to be THAT valuable long term. There are too many natural alternatives. But folks going from a sparkling clean tap water to river water full of human sewage ( even though many municipalities actually clean sewage and reuse the water, few understand this and so the Goss Out factor is different ) are going to want, if not necessarily need, water filters. It is like the difference with propane verses wood in a rocket stove. Same results, one is free and renewable, but the other is easy and a luxury.
There is also a certain small niche use militarily, as recon units will be Cold Camping and can’t boil their river water. And I’m sure I missed a function or two. So don’t panic if you never get more than enough for personal use and One Is None. They will be nice but not vital. But also carry far more utility than silver, at the same price.
( .Y. )
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Correct Jim. Precious metals (in compact or small units, not ignots, for trade and as divisible units for small ones and twos trades) have their own niche usage. A store of wealth even at a flexible and varying rate of exchange that is purpose built for the other side of the dark ages. I always consider it for a monetary conversion with the new "money" (trade will need some medium of exchange accepted and recognized above herder, farmer levels of commerce) of the new nation state your yuppie compound is now located in. The I 80 corridor may be frontier border lands of the newly balkanized 'Merica. The federal reserve notes are then relegated to monoply money for kid games, fire tinder, or butt wiping.ReplyDelete
I-80 is travelling the wrong axis. Natural border lines are the east base of the Sierras and the west base of the Rockies.Delete
Gonna need a southern border or new lines on the ground and maps to your "redoubt". The 'migrant caravans' recently displayed on television will be dwarfed by the fugly hordes of ghetto and barrio voters commuti ng up from los angeles, las vegas, phoenix, salt lake 'city', etc. They are all entitled, and yes, will come for you or yours unless stopped. Think like visegard nations of europe sealing it off, but with a bit more viciousness.Delete
400 miles with no water. Why would the undead horde go to Elko? To get to Salt Lake? Dunno about that. Like Lord Jim said "Foot traffic from Cali will head north not east.Delete
Obviously, not a sure thing. Just a High Probability thing.Delete
Great article, thanks! Was wondering if you'd be willing to share your thoughts on a related aspect to this: During the initial phase when your tribe is being formed, how do you establish an equitable sharing of goods? Case in point - I've lived frugally so I can prepare but my neighbors (assuming they're going to be future tribe members) are pissing their money away on toys (luxury items) instead. When things go bad their toys will be worthless (no value as trade items) and they'll be looking to the prepared for stuff they need without a means to exchange anything of value for supplies. What to do in that case?ReplyDelete
Why are these people your future tribe? If they must be, you need to look at this like a future hunt. You did all the work and got all the meat. But it isn't yours. It is the tribes. Because one day you won't catch any meat but still must eat. It is present sharing to assure future sharing. That is why you need to be able to trust these tribe members with your life. Because you will be. If you are giving up all your food and ammo to divy it up, how do you know it won't be wasted? So, we know WHY you must share. But, how? And that is a darn good question. Which I have few answers for. This needs some pondering.Delete
Thank you! If I have this question then I'll wager that other minions do, too. Sounds like we might reading more about this topic in future article ;-)Delete
This question is really good. I hope my brain will make the required connections. I let it mull subconciously. Then, if it fails it isn't my fault, but if it works I take all the credit :) The issue I see is our total consumer/capitalist culture never has these kinds of discussions. I need to make an intuitive leap, if possible. I don't see needing the motivation of private property, per se. Survival is motive enough. But, that rascal Human Nature being what it is, what system starts the process for people NOT learning this culturally from birth.Delete
One starting point for your thoughts might be the example of how well-off donors give to charitable organizations and startup businesses. They don't provide them with a large cash infusion up front. They'll provide a small amount of "seed money" and see how the organization uses it. If it's wasted, they move on to the next potential recipient. If it is used wisely then more is given in the next round. In our case, maybe we could have enough visible preps set aside to share with the remainder of our preps discreetly out of view?Delete
I'm reminded of what Warren Buffet said when he was asked how much of his wealth he would pass on to his heirs. His response: "I'll give them enough so that they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing."
A few thoughts come immediately to mindDelete
* I recall reading advice that SHTF one shouldn't go around to settle old scores. Up until they don't, things tend to calm down then you're left with the problem you compounded
* During the cold war & with people building bomb shelters oft times the neighbour would joke "I'll just come over to your place" only to be told if they do they'll be shot. This bred bad feelings as you can well imagine. Don't tell 'em you'll shoot them I guess the lesson is. Dunno
* OK your future tribe members squandered their wealth. That behaviour is the rule not the exception. I read that the third generation blows the family wealth. Greatest gen - Boomers - Mellenials (Gen-X gets nothing not even a mention). So where are we on that spectrum? People argue but dang if the 50's didn't seem like a golden age and man walking on the moon was peak western civilisation.
* Thought - maybe do up a list of what the majority would have and would be valuable the day after tomorrow? Things that *may* be overlooked such as gardening tools? Just thinking out loud.
* Maslows hierarchy of needs. Food. Shelter. Protection. That's Bison staples right there. Wheat berries, grinder, bolt .22lr and some shelter set up (secure an office building or a warehouse with your tribe that you can defend. Best would be a shopping mall if you're dealing with zombies. That'd be a great movie. You're trapped in a shopping mall with a group of other people with zombies out side. I'm copywriting that - no stealing)
Thanks to you both. Good food for thought.Delete
“Don't tell 'em you'll shoot them I guess the lesson is.”Delete
No, the lesson is, don’t tell them that you have a bomb shelter, and if they somehow discover it, don’t tell them that you’re going to shoot them, in that order :D
Or, tell them they are welcome, and then turn them into food.Delete
Just a thought as far as sharing ? you are either Alpha or you are not . no disrespect intended .I determine what goes where period . my job is a leadership position .people follow me . their best interests ,taken as a whole situation ,is what I do . Almost every time I make a decision it has a negative affect on someone . But I make sure all of them are reasonably ok . My personal ambitions are not considered /because I have none other than making sure everyone in my are successful . My decisions are mine to make . They affect all in my control . I only succeed because I have the strength of will and charisma to make it happen . As soon as a stronger Alpha takes that place I will yield . It is terribly hard to be in charge . Do not question yourself/ or if you do ,maybe, just maybe , it is not something you are cut out for . no disrespect intended . I can make the hard choices and they are hard beyond belief . I pray that someone better takes my place . We all have our roles /put some thought into what yours is . I have the will to put others in bad situations with a viable plan of success . We all live . We all die . Who are you in this paradigm ?Delete
I plan to keep or hold back some supplies of what I believe to be my "godly" items of an irreplaceable value from trade, barter, gifting. Unless it is a loyal and behaved blood child or a really one in a million wife mate. All others, even tribe, ( it will be more like village members as america is a long way from being that tight in groups) will need to seek supplies elsewhere for their shortsighted planning. Sorry to disappoint any slacker or free shit army minions. The christian charity of giving till it hurts or trading to a disadvantage for spiritual brownie points won't keep you in a drawn out colapse and apocalypse. (It will be a long term affair) protect yourself, plagues, stronger enemies, disfracturing politics, can scatter your kumbyha tribe and your back on your own, with what?ReplyDelete
I never really pondered, what if tribes never formed. What if things are THAT bad resource wise, like that one group in Africa ( "mountain people"? )? More pondering.Delete
You have peaked my interest, so I will discuss adding silver to my portfolio, with my financial advisor Mr Silverstein (His type are experts in such matters :D ).ReplyDelete
In the mean time, I’m off to borrow some Grey Poupon, from my survival expert friend in Idaho :D
The average American doesn't have $400 in savings ( wasn't that the figure recently thrown around? ). If you spent $22 now, buying through Amazon, obviously, you could have a minimum of three times that amount of savings, non-inflationary, if my figuring is correct. Of course, by that time you'll have bigger problems than no savings, but I can only do so much here. Watch out, that mustard might be poisoned with Hopium.Delete
Silver experiment, if anyone has any advice or experience with this, please speak up...ReplyDelete
My idea is to take a generic, one-ounce silver round, and pound it with a hammer to make it into the size of a sheet of notebook paper to maximize the surface area of the ounce. I would then coil it up (think the sideways view of a snail shell) and place it inside my wide-mouth Klean Kanteen stainless steel water bottle. Using raw lake water (with bird, fish, cow, wildlife feces, etc.), I would let it sit for approximately 30 minutes to sterilize, and then drink it. The raw lake water would only be pre-filtered with a bandanna or other cloth for visible particles only. Any comments or suggestions? If this seems viable, maybe I'll do a guest article on the experience. I've done an online search already and found people with a similar question, but no good answers.
Don't know if I'd want to be that experiment subject. The problems I see are, this would probably be like an herbal remedy. Better than nothing but perhaps only marginally effective. Over time, doesn't the silver wear away ( I wouldn't think it dissolves, but would it last forever? I thought I read the silver in the milk thing where the coin is reduced over time. I could be way off, though-don't quote me )? Is it soft enough to pound flat? For the same price, the filter lasts a lifetime, in principle, although I'd see how a low tech solution is desirable. It is just that the filter works better, probably. Plus, plain old boiling will work best 99% of the time. Just not sure if it is a solution in search of a problem. Also, Romans used vinegar to sterilize water, which might be another cold camp solution instead.Delete
The Romans also put lead into their wine to preserve it. (Process upon request.)It did indeed preserve the wine; it also gave the drinker lead poisoning.Delete
Fortunately, only the upper classes got the 'good' stuff with lead in it.
I've heard of lead goblets. But why would you need to preserve wine? This smells like an urban myth.Delete
silver iodide anyone? you know the stuff the squirt in the eyes of newborns to keep them from goin blind? a large number of medical practices are moving to silver infused items to control infections . silver is a wonder item . look it up .Delete
Silver is a wonder item. So is oil. Both in Peak. Bye, bye, wonders.Delete
Have set aside ensemble of really worn and tattered clothing and shoes. Use as a "uniform" when out of hidey hole or compound on trading forays with neighbors or townies. If your bartering ammo, silver, etc, items your cover story of finding and salvaging the items and not having more to offer may stick better with greedy lustful interlopers. It may help reduce being bicycle-jacked by hoodlums or followed home. Prepare for new paradigms, not mall walking carrying the purse and bags with the fat wife post collapse.ReplyDelete
I was looking forward to a fat wife post-collapse, the winters being what they are here :)Delete
If you gotta "go" bartering you ain't doing it right. Let em come to you, and bristle with extreme danger when they get there.Delete
You know what they say, "The bigger the cushion the better the pushin'." fat gurlz iz tighter and more anxious to pleaseDelete
A chubby happy woman is a sure sign of peasant prosperity. It takes a lot of extra food (meat!), external heat over winters, motorized transport (stored fuels!?), and leisure to keep some extra pounds (3500 calories per pound) on. O-6+ wife or spoiled daughter, not former call-center office-werker with benefits wife.Delete
Or, a sign of too many Big Macs, back when the poor could afford them.Delete
GS-fat gals. Used to be true. Now, the fat cat ladies are ruining it for the normie fat gals, as they demand everyone ignore their rolls and treat them like a pagant queen. Luckily they are still in a minority and regular fat gals are still grateful for the servicing.Delete
“You know what they say, "The bigger the cushion the better the pushin'." fat gurlz iz tighter and more anxious to please”Delete
Well, sadly those days are long over, ever since the god damn feminists started pushing this big beautiful women meme, so now even the fat chicks are picky :D
They will sing a different tune when they end up in the stewpot while their more shapely friends are selected for breeding stock.Delete
I think that the main utility of silver, gold, jewels, money etc. are not for us to store wealth. That is a by-product.ReplyDelete
The natural draw is that women like shiny things. The origin of moneys is for men to score with their ideal woman (because we all know what the world's oldest profession is).
To that end, low cost precious metal jewelry may be a better option for your tribes usage in a collapse scenario. It would have utility both during and after.
I did an article once on sterling silver jewelry, how giving to the wife every holiday was a way to satisfy her, and have a form of PM savings.Delete
For many years , I bought her the Black Hills gold cuz she really liked it. She actually told me to stop cuz she had more than enuff...go figure eh ?Delete
Now days she just asks that I continue to be me and that's gift enough...go figure.
She always will accept another knife tho or gun.
Or another GODAMN Parrot !!!
I hate that evil fucking bird she has lol
That is precious! You live in Florida, and have a parrot. Am I the only one thinking Jimmy Buffet? You made my day, dude.Delete