BATTLE RIFLE BOOK 12
Every swinging dingus out there seriously contemplating actual civilization collapse rather than some lame ass fantasy of Prepper Lite where the worst thing that will ever happen is a couple of days looting during a hurricane mostly all agree that the HK91 is THE premier kick ass weapon of choice to survive the apocalypse in style. The first book I was ever exposed to on survivalism, early 80’s, Life After Doomsday (https://amzn.to/2A6BWF9 ), was my first taste of this weapon preference, and I rarely ever saw anything refuting this in the decades since.
Then just recently a Loyal Minion pointed out that the weapon system has a serious Achilles Heel ( from reports to him of first hand field experience ). The receiver cover and to a lesser extent the charging handle cover are both prone to discontinue working if they are dented. Range Rangers will of course sputter and spew and get bent out of shape because they never had a problem. Of course they didn’t! They were never out in the field for days humping over mountains, exhausted and cold. They never fumbled and fell with weapon in hand.
I’ve never been in combat, but one thing even I know is that your crap is going to take a beating in the field. I laugh uproariously when I see a YouTube “stress test” of the AR where they drop it four feet into the soft grass. No, Spanky, in real life your weapon will take a tiny bit more abuse than that. Off of the rifle range or your gun room where you show off your fancy guns to admiring fanboys, you WILL get dings and scrapes and bumps on Your Precious. I guaran-damn-tee you and will bet you a jelly filled donut.
When the G3 receiver cover has a deep enough dent, the moving items underneath them don’t move properly. The company HK knew of this issue early and it was happening often enough that all the militaries that issued the rifle had their field armorers carry a tool to straighten out the dents. Here is a book excerpt:
Now, to be fair, here is a gun forum take on the matter which is no where near as worried:
I cannot say for certainty which one is correct. I do know however that if you do NOT assume the worst you might get into trouble. Although, yes, urban myths and Hater Trolls might also make far more of a mountain out of a mole hill than necessary. I will say that this was in the past a regular issue, and I cannot say if that carried on from HK to the generic gun American manufactures. Here is where you alone have to decide how much you want to roll the dice of probability perhaps soiled under Murphy’s Law Of Combat. Which is the normal Murphy’s Law exponentially increased.
I suppose if you are naturally handy, this won’t be a huge issue as you can Afro-American Engineer your own straightening mandrel. If not, they cost $375 to buy. A spare receiver costs $200 ( DAMN!!! ). Some claim that the new guns with the Picatinny Rails strengthen the receiver enough. Others won’t have anything to do with the system after they learn of this vulnerability. Myself? I’m glad I stocked up on Lee-Enfield’s when they were stupid cheap. But if I had to choose myself? No. I would pass on the G3. Sadly, regrettably, but pass I would. Because even with the mandrel, you’d still have a field malf’ed gun that endangered you.
Now, that said, everything else about the G3 kicks serious ass. There was a very good reason it was at the top of the heap of the apocalypse guns. It was accurate AND it was really rugged in the field ( obviously, from the perspective of never jamming. Parts never seemed to break on it. Ever. This is discounting the receiver cover issue ). It didn’t have the accuracy of the M-14, but the M-14 was known for its more delicate nature. It was TOO prone to breakage compared to other battle rifles.
But compared to all the major rifles, the G3 was more accurate while being less delicate. Any one of the other rifles had one better aspect. The M-14 as stated was sniper grade, but a wallflower. The FN-FAL didn’t have the receiver dent issue and so was even more rugged than the G3. But the FAL was not as accurate. The G3 was the best combination of traits, even though it didn’t do any one thing better. So, on a relative basis, you could say it was more accurate and more rugged. And, currently, it is more affordable.
Not compared to the AR-10. The AR is the only really affordable Full Thirty battle rifle for the true budget impaired. But compared to the M-14 or the FN-FAL, the G3 is much cheaper. $1,000 compared to $1500 to $1700 to start. You can also get a crappy G3 from Century Arms for $700 ( the C308 ). Why, I’m not sure, but at least it is an option. Options are good. If you insist on a Full 30, and the AR-10 just doesn’t appeal to you ( I don’t see a huge issue myself, but more in its own chapter ), and the mandrel tool itself is an acceptable issue, a lot of folks swear by their frugal G3, the C308.
If you never dent the covers, or for that matter personally don’t think it is an issue you must worry about, or have a mandrel, the G3 is going to be the gun for you after the apocalypse that breaks less parts and doesn’t waste as much ammunition. That is a rather ringing endorsement. It has the best aspects of battle rifles of full power, at the cheapest price. It isn’t nearly as popular as it once was, it isn’t the King Of The Survivalists Arsenal, but that isn’t because it is bad.
That is because the AR-15 took over as the de facto issued prepper and militia weapon. And that has everything to do with price. The worst AR is half the price of the worst G3. The ammo is half the price, or less. Despite what the Yuppie Scum Elitist Survival Guru’s tell you, no, it isn’t always easy to buy the best. As seen by the adaptation of the AR as the standard, MOST preppers are poor, either in budget or savings.
That doesn’t mean the AR is superior to the G3 tactically. It means that is what the peasantry can afford. I’d rather have a crappy ( er ) gun with twice the ammo, because ammo is the weak link. If we spent 1/100th the time talking about ammo stacking depth than we do about The Best Gun, most survivalists would be much safer. Ammo first, and second. The gun third. Real World stuff, folks. ( But as far as the G3 in .223? Please! Why spend at Full thirty gun prices for a carbine round? The worst of both worlds ).
( .Y. )
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I have no experience with the G3, and don't know if the receiver gets hot, but what if you "padded" the fragile portion of the receiver with earth-colored female adhesive strips of Velcro to soften any impacts?ReplyDelete
Well, if you put padding that thick on your face, and fell down on a rock, how would you end up? Just saying :)Delete
Stamped metal. Never cared for it in a high stress situation. If thick enough it's probably OK, but the several AK's and HK's I've encountered were not. It gets into the structural stability of the thing and how the metallurgy aspect works. A "harder" type of metal might not perform the same way.ReplyDelete
A good aspect to stamped metal, normally, is that it is soft enough to not break upon impact but rather, bend, or dent in this case. Cast metal, like many other guns, is very hard, by the nature of how it is made, and thus brittle. Under a hard enough impact cast metal will break or shatter.
Stamped metal will never be cast but it can be made stronger by the elements from which it is created, and by making it thicker. The manufacturers must make decisions in the design and development processes in this regard. While thicker stamped metal is stronger it is also heavier, so compromises are made to achieve a decent and acceptable end result. Both processes, cast and stamped, have pro's and con's. The only stamped gun I can remember owning was Cobray Mac 11 9mm (32 round magazines) back in the 80's and I never had problems with it but I never pushed it to the limit or abused it either.
Ah, the Mac's. The coke dealers little buddy.Delete
The shape of stamped metal makes a difference. Planning for dents and distortion in tolerances should be basic weapon engineering. Russians understand how peasants and Africans handle machines, and design accordingly.Delete
Right, the masses would be armed to overthrow the capitalist. And be armed locally to stop the capitalists invading. The stockpiled AK's at the Berlin Wall Fall were for citizen militia defense. Every school kid knew all about using them.Delete
Yuh oughta go out tomorrow with a BISONS for Trump sign. Get some national coverage maybe...ReplyDelete
Can't believe he is stopping in your huge metropolis of trumpbot meth heads...
First I've heard of this. I really need to check local news better. I guess I need to go shopping tonight then, and hole up tomorrow. Damn Cheeto head MoFo.Delete
Yeah but. In duopoly gov't have to pick a side, and help out or at least vote (in case they do count yours, for real) consider the alternatives. (Fast bleed out and quick death, or triaged and stave off worst symptomolgies) be happy Elko is chosen for you to be armageddon ground zero location.Delete
News here says he will be stopping in Elko on the 20th.Delete
One of his get out the ignorant rallies...
Hell, go on down and see if you qualify to standup behind dear leader.
Make sure you wave the Bison loves Cheetos sign
2:29-is this helping? :)Delete
Spud-a giant AF plane parked at the airport, I'm imaging initial security. Multiple by every stop. This is the price of the circus trying to convince us our vote matters. And no, I'm not going out to visit. Way too many Cali immigrants with purple hair for potential suicide bombers. And we have a functioning PetCo, so you know there are a lot of cat owners. If cat's are in fact Lucifer's minions, you know they are whispering instructions into dem bitches ears.
Yes that pendulum is a swinging ever so wider. Pretty soon the pivot points gonna bust...Delete
I'm truly surprised that Helko can even accommodate Air Farce One...
The city was spending Huge Bucks on the airport back in the 1920's, and proud of it. We have geothermal runway ice melting. And every time they put more money into it, the funding dries up. The end of postal air mail. The end of casino charters. "Their" airline going bankrupt. But the taxpayers sure put in enough runway for any big aircraft. So there you go.Delete
Good points Jim. Look at the third worlders in africa (game wardens) and latin america militaries still carrying G3 rifles. All worn shiney but still operational by those dirt worshippers. ALL gun platforms have their achilles' heals and shortcomings. It will be murphy's law changing your plans anyway. The ar15 supplanting all of the other gun choices in primacy is just a reflection of the tech, standardization, military alliances, and commonality steering government procurements and consumer market decisions. P.s. the c308 is a cetme pattern rifle. A distinction must be considered as only fifty percent or so of the parts interchange with the true hk91 / G3 pattern. There is some info online listing which is which. Buyer beware.ReplyDelete
Just like you can't confuse the Imperial FN-FAL with the metric one. I've read that a lot of the AR-10 issues are that one manufactures parts don't fit anothers. I don't consider that a huge issue, as I'd only buy from Palmetto State, all 80% guns. Also, GS mentions the really crappy cheap AR-15's have problems accepting parts from other manufactures. And I think there are also AK-47 compatibility by country issues. So the CETME and HK-91 incompatibility does seem about par for the course. Although, reminders certainly don't hurt.Delete
A fellow who sells spare parts for battle rifles had a page on his website which listed parts interchangeability for the CETME vs the HK G3. When he updated his site that page disappeared but it can be viewed at Archive.org (a.k.a., The Wayback Machine). Here's an example from 2006: https://web.archive.org/web/20060813213816/http://www.robertrtg.com:80/cetmeinfo.htmlDelete
Most excellent resource-thanks!Delete
I came across this helpful video just yesterday, on light weight bugout bag suggestions. I am not advocating bugging out as a primary strategy in the least. But one never knows when one might have to make a hasty retreat, even from rural areas. He doesn’t mention communication, but if you’re on the run let’s say (and in today’s world, it’s becoming increasingly easy to find yourself on the wrong side of the law) then you would want a cell phone with a removable battery. Another option would be that 40 meter CW radio kit that I mentioned here before.ReplyDelete
Green Beret's Ultralight Bug Out Bag with Gear Recommendations
I actually watched this very one the other day. I love his "10% of body weight max". Sooo few focus on weight as #1 consideration.Delete
Strange coincidence? It looked like a decent channel, so I subscribed. I always felt that it was good plan to have something like this close by, and ready to grab on the way out the door, or kept in the car, just in case. You never know when life can throw some sort of unexpected situation at you.Delete
Survival manuals were my fetish back in the day (No youtube at the time). But in general, most of them were about 80% similar to all the others. Though every now and then you would come across one with fresh material. The military manuals, while they offered some sound advice, were the worst of the lot, because they were such a dry and boring read.
10% of "Ideal" body weight, or current body weight? ;-)Delete
Agree that mobility is most important way to save self from many hazards. Most over-10 years old people can handle a 15 pound pack, and fifteen pounds of stuff can save you from a lot of bad things.
Remember to count the weight of the pack itself.
I think FM's are indeed dry and boring, but worse, they are instructions oh how to die gloriously for our betters. Don't get me started on that. But I'm agreeing I need to focus anew on BOBS. The one I have isn't really for winter. Too much unrest now to be as dismissive as I once was.Delete
PDX-I would try for a total of ten pounds of stuff in the pack. Once you account for rifle, even ammo just for a bolt gun, your belt items and butt pack and water, you are probably maxed out past comfort anyway. The Grey Beard Green Beret dude has experience in this and he had 18 pounds of stuff in his pack. 9% of his body weight.Delete
For winter use, it might be a little more challenging to keep the weight and cost down Jim. He mentioned the GI poncho liner in that video, which is light weight, and in conjunction with the poncho as a windbreaker, might provide enough of a thermal barrier to keep you reasonably warm. Assuming that you started off with warm clothing, then you might be okay with just the poncho and the liner. Otherwise, a lightweight, cold weather, synthetic sleeping bag can be rather expensive.Delete
I like Dave Canterbury’s suggestion of incorporating the wool blanket that he suggests using, and when rolled up in a specific fashion, doubles as your light weight pack, with all your goodies rolled up inside. One drawback of this system is that you wouldn’t have immediate access to the contents inside, though you could clip a few commonly used items to the exterior. With a wool blanket, unless you are dressed quite well, you might have to supplement it with a fire in cold weather.
All that biking in the cold equipped me with superb clothing. So just a woolie should suffice. I'm liking the old timey Civil War Packed In A Blanket system. Thanks for the reminder.Delete
In a stand-off situation that is "for all the marbles" defending my Last Refuge, I want an HK. Traversing the land as a wanderer, then maybe the "forever gun" Lee Enfield.ReplyDelete
But an honest question: In a firefight, how many British .303 rounds do you think you can fire before your shoulder gives-out?? My guess is it would be less than you imagine, even with adrenaline flowing. Something to think about as you get older.
When I was younger, way younger, my shoulder was pulp after a single quick mag dump. I'd have palsy. My plan is to use up all my full thirty rounds, then switch over to pistol bullets and shotgun powder. Of course, yes, the heavy fighting will be at first, so this is a suck-ass plan. I'll need to re-think/plan. I just bought the reloading components, and now savings are depleting to go to canning. Not sure if I'll have time or money to load up 303 carbine rounds, setting aside the full power loads. But I should. Thanks-good reminder. It was already slipped down to the bottom of the list.Delete
Oops, forgot to add. Interim plan is a huge screw on rubber pad, or a shoulder pad. Or both. And I'm talking a inch plus rubber, not that crappy slip on one you get at Wally. Almost fifty bucks for both. Well worth it in the ammo savings ( not to mention shoulder relocation ). See, another helpful reminder. Thanks. Another minor but important detail slipping my pea brain.Delete
The reason an HK91 was "the ultimate weapon" was that it was pretty great for $699 in 1983, when the FAL was $1799. That's a big difference. Betcha darn-good .303's were a hunnert and fitty bucks with cases n cases of corrosive surplus cheap.ReplyDelete
A $500 AR is soooooo incredibly cheap right now, vs. wages.
I miss the early 1980's! For me, $699 might as well have been forty thousand then.
An HK would have been six weeks wages for me then. My first Enfield was less than one days ( of course, 15 years of wage inflation, but even adjusted it would only have been three days ).Delete
Field experience (i.e. not static range practice) with HK 91s includes deer hunting, overnight "patrols" with 120 rounds in mags, and running through homemade multiple target timed shoots in woods. No 3rd world combat tours or fighting off the Predator alien with it, but I've "fielded" with it to some extent. It's great strength is it always, always goes bang again and again no matter what. They are the 30s I started with in 80s and added parts (never needed) and more mags when good deals were encountered.ReplyDelete
And like 8:14 mentions, I too have noticed over years news photos of old G3s worn shiny by decades of constant use in the world's premier shitholes. Those weapons probably haven't been within 1000 miles of a mandrel since they left the factory.
I have less experience with FALs, and I like them with full not folding stocks. To me, somehow the FAL seems more fragile (rear sights, long thin barrel on 21"). I like the 18" Congo model put out by Illinois company (blanking on their name at moment) that makes them using Styer blueprints. My personal experience is that the HK is definitely more accurate than FALs.
Haven't owned a 308 AR, but while at range with friend who had one it was: bam, click, wait a minute, maybe its the mag, maybe it's the ammo, maybe, maybe. Just one annecdote I know, but with HK never put up with that once since 1987 to now.
The dent issue I haven't encountered. But I suggest there is an outlier, low probability, Murphy type event lurking for every weapon, piece of equipment and plan any survivalist could possibly have.
Find a weapon that resonates and works well for you. Get parts and/or a duplicate backup if able. Then move on to the other 96% of trying to figure out how to live day to day as the current system lurches towards discordia.
Hope I dont come off as a brand partisan asshat for HK. I dont wear a logo T-shirt, have a bumper sticker, or derive my identity from any brand. Just My 2 pennies about the rifle.
Thanks for your blog, always my first read of day.
You don't come across as a fanatic for HK, but a user that never was screwed. Good to have real world experience. I suspect you are correct about the outlier dent issue. It is easy for me to dismiss the weapon since I'm all set already and don't need to change or start from scratch. For those needing more than a poodle killer round, what else are you going to do? The AR should probably only be used by those that can afford to gamble to initial $500 to test it, and if a AR10 is ALL you can afford I'd seriously consider just fiddling with the ammo, twists and barrels on an AR15.Delete