BATTLE RIFLE BOOK 6
WHICH ROUND?
I used to be all in favor
of the heavy and slow rounds. I no
longer am. Now, yes, my arsenal is big
and slow rather than high velocity, but that was due more to the guns
themselves which incidentally fired a certain round than the ammunition
itself. I actually don’t have a
favorite. Both types of rounds are
suitable. Both have good and bad points,
just like every gun out there. There is
no perfect type of ammunition, nor is there an ideal gun. Everything you use has compromises inherent
in them. And no, buying extra guns on
the “tool for its job” argument doesn’t work well either.
*
I used to be a 45 guy. Now I prefer revolvers. The 45 was great for what it did. It was the AK of sidearms. You couldn’t hit crap, but it always fired,
and absent ammunition you could beat your opponents skull in with it. It was reliable. A certainty.
And guess what, Snappy? Reliable
arms in the uncertainty of conflict is pretty darn important. So, if the pistol was your only weapon ( and
when we were issued M-60’s or M-16’s [ the A1’s, so don’t get your knickers
twisted just yet-not that anyone can make any excuses for the hunk o crap 60 ]
you knew that in a very short time, it would be your only weapon ), it was hard
to argue against the 45. The issue I had
with the 9mm was that the idiots didn’t take into account that FMJ made it
worthless.
*
Unfortunately, that hatred
of military 9mm transferred over to civilian life and tainted my thinking for
many years. I eventually came around to
the 9mm, finally as the ammunition market no longer put out affordable product
anymore and its wide availability finally won it over as a viable option. No, I didn’t switch over to the Nine, but I
no longer hated and despised it. I
finally listened to the users you had preached shot placement over wounding
potential.
*
Surely you’ve been in a
fight before? Ever had some guy charge you
from twenty yards away? Unbelievably
fast, and I’m not one of those fortunate guys that has time slow during a
conflict. Not all of us can hit much
with a pistol at that distance, and few can react fast enough for shot
placement. That is why I hope that my
more powerful rounds will make a difference.
I get five, and will be lucky to hit with all of them. I’m just going for center mass. But with a 9mm, you can mag dump three times
the rounds to the same or better effect, AND you have the option of shot
placement if the opportunity is afforded.
The near zero recoil helps. Keep
that fact in mind during this upcoming discussion.
*
I know I said we don’t
focus on pistols for this book. I don’t. It does help the discussion, though, as we
dispel the eternal 9vs. 45 argument. If
you are basing your choices on range time or on a Hollywood style OK Corral
static gunfight, or lab results, you aren’t focusing on the big picture. What works good enough within the limitation
of budget and supply. NOT what is closer
to perfect. Is the 9mm or the 223 ( I
don’t acknowledge the AK74 rimfire type caliber. To me, an AK will always be the 7.62x39 ) a
terrible round, with the 308 and 45 superior?
Of course not.
*
Sure, I’ll make fun of the
limp wrested Waffen SS pistol and the poodle shooter round, I’ll make the same
references to manly men rifles compared to FemiNazi politically correct ammo
and carbines for our little brown brother colonial troops, for the little girls
putting on the big boy fatigues being able to shoot. And to a degree that criticism is
correct. BUT, it also has its basis in
the distant past we no longer approximate.
It might be true that the more a round bruises your shoulder the more
critical parts of the enemy is going to turn into pink mist, but it ignores one
critical point.
*
Almost nobody is a
rifleman any more. We are range
commandoes. We are not woodsmen. We are Tactical Tommy’s. We rely on equipment rather than skill, to a
very large extent anymore. This is not
to say that one lone individual can’t buck the trend and train hard to be the
best. Of course he can. What I am saying is that for the most part
the average Joe, survivalist or not, relies on equipment rather than skill
almost exclusively. If you can’t see
that, ask yourself why you need a semi-auto.
By the very nature of its design, it is for spraying lead. NOT for marksmanship. Of course you CAN use it that way, but that
is not why the weapon was designed.
*
Long before new ammunition
and fancy electronic sights, the M-16 was an assault rifle, and it had the best
designed ergonomics of almost any gun ever to quickly change magazines ( which
were disposable, in their original design-why thin lips and aluminum body didn’t
matter ). It was designed to spray
lead. It was easily controlled in full
auto-mode ( not that this made it all that accurate, just more so. You want controllability in full auto, you go
down to pistol ammo or really increase the guns weight ). Of course, it was also a very accurate rifle,
and so the military was sold on it being far more versatile than anything
else. It could in a pinch substitute for
a machinegun. It was riflemen accurate. It could be used by colonial troops, a much
improved M1 Carbine ( later used as an excuse to flood the military with
bitches ).
*
The two huge downsides
were the pipsqueak round and the very fragile design ( if you butt stroke
anyone or bayonet them, rush down to your friendly armorer for repairs-or
luckily for today’s survivalists, replacements in a plug and play manor ). And much has been made of said round. I always hated the M-16, but not because of
the round. That is just icing on the cake
for rejecting it. I hated its tendency
to jam, the reason I also hated the Devil’s Dong M-60. The weight was no picnic, since at the time
my bodyweight was low and after weapon, spare barrel and ammunition I was
lugging a machinegun at about a quarter of my weight, PLUS all my other
crap. But I wouldn’t have minded as much
if at least the damn thing had worked.
*
I’ll have to continue this
chapter tomorrow. There is much more
that needs to be said.
( .Y. )
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Teh best calibre? Meh, it's all a trade off isn't it?
ReplyDeleteYeah, some are better than others. 577-450 would be awesome if Zulu's ever graced your land. Heck, Dingoland is having groups of Africans running riot at the moment so maybe it'll make a comeback?
Failing that, nobody wants to be hit with a .22lr let alone a .223, .303 or a 30-30. Hell, I don't want to be hit by a sling shot.
Christ, all the imported Ornamentals aren't enough? You guys had to import from Africa too? Nobody learned anything from the dumbass Yanks?
DeleteFor every reason you gave, I preferred the M14 over the M16.
ReplyDeleteHeavy yes, but durable and ya didn't have to double tap.
That's why I maintain that a 5.56 must remain a functional semi gun not bolt ! Damn poodle shooters must put at least two into the upper body in order to assure incapacitation.
Not so with a .308 cal round.
Same here on the .45 Colt ACP... Always thought I wanted one, till I got my Sig 220 in .45 ACP. Much better than the military cocked and locked Colts.
If I had to go back to a 1911 I wouldn't be too butt hurt. The reliability made its other features acceptable. And I'll always prefer heavy wood to plastic. But since everyone loves the AR for its long distance accuracy, the lack of stopping power shouldn't be such a huge deal. But, you are right for the East of the country. Short distances and double taps on semi. That would normally negate the price advantage of the round, except the gun is so much cheaper. Until you get into the thousands of rounds. Topic for another day.
DeleteThat's the thing if it takes two, then cost of ammo and
Deletetotal load out capacity negates any advantage the 5.56 has over the .30 + ones.
Of course the 22lr as Dingo said...makes em duck.
On the 1911A1, IF you just gotta have one. The
Sig Sauer 'Nightmare' is a fine beast. Personally I prefer the double/single action Sig makes with no safety.
I think it all comes down to terrain and tactics on whether the 223 is acceptable or not. The concept of the carbine round is sound, I just think the 223 always worked better in theory than in reality. But since we are stuck with it, we can still make it work. The 12 gauge is fine for your neck of the woods, and is not much more than a 20 yard gun. If you employ the 223 as you would have the shotgun, as a bushwacker, the round shouldn't be as much of a deciding factor. If fighting conventionally then its shortcomings start presenting issues.
DeleteI recently read an article about a detective that had as a back up gun, the poor choice of one of those old timey, single shot, anemic .41 rimfire derringers. Good shot placement saved his life, but boy, there sure isn’t much room for error there! So that’s what it comes down to as you’ve pointed out. Good shot placement, which requires at least some practice, even for close ranges, or rely on something larger, where shot placement is less critical.
ReplyDeleteI can’t imagine what was going through the mind of the person that thought that a fully auto M16 with a 25 round magazine was ever a practical choice? So you pull the trigger for 1 second, and your ammo is gone, and you probably didn’t hit much when it was all over. I suppose they ended up coming to a similar conclusion when they converted them over to tri-burst. That’s why it’s bad when people that don’t actually use these things are the one’s designing them.
An old-time pocket pistol and a seemingly low-powered cartridge save the day for law and order!
https://truewestmagazine.com/a-41-derringer-barks-again/
Stoner designed a pretty good gun, and he was a combat vet. Then the dick faces in the Army got hold of it and kept trying to improve it after they screwed it up to begin with. To say nothing of the traitorous whores at Colt who should all have been tortured long and hard along with their CongressCritter.
DeleteGood to know. I don’t really keep up with this stuff, and didn’t know the history behind the development of the weapon. Though it seems to me as if this design was his “Edsel”. But at least he had the sense not to immortalize it as such by naming it after his daughter :D
DeleteYou need to look at his other weapons that weren't dicked with. Not that it is all that important to even think about, other than if you were ever in the service you understand that the bastards would hold meetings, appropriate funds and dictate directives to go out of their way to totally screw up a wet dream. Our enemies have to be THAT bad for us to stand a chance defeating them in spite of our leadership. To 99.9% of all officers everywhere, I say to you good Sirs, hump you very much.
Delete"Good shot placement, which requires at least some practice,"
Delete===========
Well there ya go, as I've said many times here and elsewhere. If you don't use it regularly it doesn't really matter what gun you have because it's gonna be shoved right up your ass sideways and then "sprayed n prayed".
Shooting is a hobby with benefits and like any other hobby it costs money, so if the price is out of your range then you should probably stick with a wrist rocket. This is not directed at any person in particular but everyone in general.
Well, I would say that mostly for near 99% of guns/owners out there, it is a tool they think they need. They place 99% importance on just having the tool-that takes up most of the equation. Not saying it is correct, just the main attitude. To a degree they are correct. Just not as much as they think.
DeleteRegardless of caliber or platforms of choice. Race with what you brought to the show. If practiced and equipment is quality and cared for the minion will be good to go. It is going to be vastly more mental than what gear you ended up with. Also don't fret with the amount of shots taken. There are many a case where assailants are still a threat after numerous shots of any calibers. Keep firing until target is down-incapacitated. (Target changes shape or starts on fire is popular metaphor) ammo is cheap your life is not, mag dump the bastard if you have to. If target is down and no other threats are present, go ahead and put two more rounds on target for good measure. (This is combat, YO!) reload, regroup, etc.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Ammo is cheap NOW, but after the collapse it will be irreplaceable. The procurement cost is NOT as important as the replacement cost. That is why gas stations hike up the price before the next delivery. First point, on doing well with what you have, yes-agreed. But not "ammo is cheap, mag dump". Basing your strategy and tactics on yesteryears realities is planning on fighting the last war. See Jap bayonet charge into our guns, WWII. They were fighting a coal powered army rather than an oil age one.
Delete"The procurement cost is NOT as important as the replacement cost."
DeleteActually, the exact opposite is true, as you explained in the immediately preceding sentence: "Ammo is cheap NOW, but after the collapse it will be irreplaceable."
And I agree with that. That's why you have no choice but to buy as much ammo as possible now as it won't be available later, after collapse.
Your unused "frugal" ammo will benefit the warriors that kill you.
The M60. The machine gun I loved to hate. Too bad you never got a chance to try out the M240B. That thing sang like a beautiful goddess laying scunion on the goat humpers in Afghanistan. I never had an issue in 12 months. We just kept it clean.
ReplyDeleteJeSteR
Just keep it clean. It's the troops fault the gun doesn't work. Why should it be the military's job to take the time to find a gun that works under combat conditions? I mean, that would take profits away from the defense contractors and might endanger someone's iron rice bowl. I'll hush now.
DeleteHaha. I understand what you’re saying, but “keep it clean” in Afghanistan is relative. I just meant clean it after you fire it, between missions. It worked like a gem. The M60? Not so much.
DeleteJeSteR
You want something that works? You want a Vickers Machine gun. When the UK went from .303 to .308 they had a few rounds sitting around. So for a laugh they fired a Vickers Machine gun for 7 days straight, only stopping to reload & for barrel changes. 5,000,000 rounds later they strip the gun down and it's all still in spec.
DeleteThat info isn't mentioned in this video but DANG if this video isn't absolutely fascinating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sn346sYXys
And perfect for mounting on your "Technical" :)
DeleteJester-I was never sure if the M-60 worked great new and if everywhere I went we were issued piece of crap left over from 'Nam Huey's guns, or it was just pure junk to start. The M16A1's were great compared to them. And that is saying very little. If the new guns work great, even if only compared to the '60's, more power to them.
DeleteMmm...my guess, evolutionary. Friggin Blackhawks we’re called “CrashHawks” at one time. Now they are the Toyota Camry of the skies.
DeleteDingo, God save the Queen...or something. That was a cool video. Thanks for sharing.
DeleteJeSteR
Oh and P.S. “we kept it clean” was one officer and one SSG. We were the “troops”. I was the gunner 90% of the time as the NCO chose to drive. So, it’s an officer proof machine gun. 🧐
ReplyDeleteJeSteR
Never been much concerned with the ordinary average guy and what he thinks says or does. I carve my own path.
ReplyDeleteI've fired several thousand rds through the 1911 and never cared for it. It's a geometry thing. Didn't feel right in my hand. The shape of the grip and the angle.
Though a smaller caliber, which is mostly irrelevant if you don't shoot regularly as you'll be killed by an assailant no matter what caliber you pull out, my Beretta 92FS is very comfortable to shoot.
Today I experienced the first misfire with my custom built AR15. Misfeed really. I bought a 10 pack of Magpul Gen 2 mags (I normally use Gen 3) awhile back (Sportsmans Guide) and used them for the first time today. The 2nd 30rd mag misfed after the 2nd and 4th rd and then preformed normally after that. The next 8 mags preformed normally too. So I came home and stretched the springs slightly in all 10 of the Gen 2's and will test them again next week.
Using Gen 3 mags today I also zero'd my scope out to 100 yds, so I am good now. I have over 4k rds through this gun and other than todays 2 misfeeds I have had no problems at all.
Having said all that, I currently have a 1-6 power scope on it and I am wondering if my old ass eyes could use some more help. So I'm shopping for a zoomable scope that will reach out further than 6X.
At 100 yds I can keep all 30 rds in about a 2" circle, but it takes a few seconds between shots to get back in the breathing pattern, etc. So none of that bullshit "spray n pray" nonsense that has become stylish to non-shooters. At $20-30 a box why in the world would anyone do that?
"At $20-30 a box why in the world would anyone do that?" Why? Because that is ALL they see and hear, from the videos of the war zone to Hollywood to all their buddies. That is why everyone "needs" an AR. Just like they "need" a new car-because without one they are sub-par.
DeleteGS i know u don't pay much attention to the common man,but have u considered a fixed power scope.
DeleteMuch more durable and battle proof. Not to mention u get a lot more scope for ur money.
Weaver k6 on my Sig m400 hunter,couldn't be happier
With the quality and gives good vision out to 300 yards, I figure plenty good for urban distances.
Good point. Thanks, I can't be everywhere at once :)
DeleteAnon: I will look that model up. Almost everything I own regarding guns was referred to me by someone else. If I like em I get em. Thank you.
DeleteBeen a follower for years. The take away that I’m getting is that I should go out and get two .45 ACP’s (One for each hand) along with a couple of those 100 round drum magazines that they sell for them. That way I can go out and do my best Bruce Willis in Last Man Standing imitation, come PA.
ReplyDeleteNah, I’m just messing with ya :D
Can you fit a FLIR scope on a pistol? Damn good movie, Last Man Standing. Watched it way too many times. On Amazon Prime right now if I'm not mistaken.
DeleteYou can put red-dot, co-witnessed with the iron sites ... boosted my accuracy a ridiculous amount.
DeleteHmmm....
Delete