When I first started writing the original version here, Obammy the First Kenyan was in office for the second time. This was when you knew for sure that our nation was comprised of the worlds dumbest douchebags, or, the vote was rigged. Pick your poison. Then, all the fools that might have been smart enough to not vote for Barry, were silly enough to think that the ammo shortage/inflation was caused by said Muslim immigrant. Right, because the ammo was pricey and scarce his first term. Oh? It wasn't?
Yeah, but, you know, Alphabet Agencies stockpiling ammo! Yeah, for sure, that's why! Despite the fact that five plus years of blowing off bagazillions of rounds in the Sandbox didn't cause a shortage. Then, during The White House Negro's second term, there was no rimfire to be had. Because, you know, the first thing that is hoarded during a gun control scare is 22's. NOT! What people simply will not accept is resource scarcity. If they admit copper is in short supply, bought up by China, they have to admit two paradigm changes that are simply too scary to contemplate.
That first, the “world's greatest economy” cannot secure its commodities, losing out to Rice Eaters. And second, you cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet. And perhaps a bonus third, if they admit to Peak Iron Ore, Peak Silver or Peak Copper, they have to admit to Peak Oil. And that simply will NOT do. The US experienced Peak Iron Ore in 1959, and in 1979 were still in denial that our industrial economy was gone. Talk about leading a horse to water and MF'er won't drink.
Hubbert was telling everyone in the Fifties that US oil peak was 1970 and the global peak was 2000 ( he was off by five years on the global, but there was a pretty severe demand destruction before that. I still call it close enough, given all the various moving parts he had to keep track of ). After being proven correct, people STILL want to dredge up all the arguments used prior to his predictions that have kept proving wrong. Nuclear will save us, coal will save us, tight oil will save us ( tight oil just kicked the can down the road a decade. Thank you fracking, but your miracle is near over ).
Theory based on proof, then proof itself, NEVER changes peoples minds. I only keep on about ores and oil because I'll get through to a few people and their asses will be saved. Several folks followed my advice on junk land, my bleating and irritatingly persistent nagging lighting a fire under their ass, and I can rest happy some readers will have markedly improved lives and increased safety. I'm trying to do the same with Peak Everything, and endure the derision and delusion of 99% of you so I can help the 1%. My reward will be is heaven. Yours will be a Darwin Award.
Now, getting back to copper, we should all be much more afraid, now, as it is again cheap and plentiful. That just means China's economy is taking a big squishy, global manufacturing is crap ( and by crap, I don't mean reduced profits. I mean, in free fall, 1930's style ) and domestic demand is low enough that a lot of these companies are going to be going out of business ( meaning, the prices will shoot way up, again, lacking competition and desperation pricing ). Why am I telling you all of this?
Because it is NOT about the guns. It is about the ammunition. Not to say the gun isn't important. I cover what semi auto is the best survival rifle in my last book BBBno16. In case you didn't follow my advice to NOT use semi-auto because, you know, logistics ( BBBno2, Apocalypse Gun Porn ). BBBno9 has the Forever Gun book, how to shoot a smokeless rifle long after everyone else is out of ammunition. All free at my web site, or for sale at Amazon if you want to donate. Of course a gun is important. When I first started blogging, a Lee-Enfield was $125 ( refurbished, even ). I wrote version one of this and it was already $400.
Now it is $600. A Lee-Enfield, THE mostest perfect survival gun, ever, is no longer a viable choice, because One Is None. And don't get me started on those spare parts. The ammunition for the Lee-Enfield, conversely, is now at its cheapest and most available in about fifteen years. Probably because no one is buying the rifles anymore ( as I write, Midway finally ran out- after about a year- of Pakistani 303B at about 42 cents, if you got a free shipping special ). Yet, I'm telling you ammunition is your primary concern. And I don't mean, “only buy military calibers”. That CAN be important, if you are using steel cased ammo ( NEVER for my beloved Enfield, but fine for more modern arms ).
Quantity. How much ammunition you can buy SHOULD be your primary concern as to what firearm you choose. Obviously you have to pick a gun that is suitable for your area. That is the cyclical action you desire. That reaches the distances you can comfortably hit at. So I'm NOT telling you what to buy as far as rimfire or shotgun or deer rifle or combat carbine. You KNOW all of that nonsense. If you are totally unfamiliar with firearms, say, after living in New York or California, make life easy for yourself and just buy a cheap revolver. I'd recommend a 38. Recoil DOES matter.
And a 20guage break open shotgun. Idiot proof guns, with cheap ammo. Otherwise, if you know your guns and know what you need, there WILL be something in your price range ( due to desperate companies trying to stay in business. Just expect lower quality. Except perhaps Savage, all around ). Obviously, as always, One Is None. Then, ammunition. Focus on ammo, not JUST the gun. You need a butt ton. If you are unsure of that measurement, it is MORE. I really think this is your last opportunity to buy affordable ammo ( not even factoring in increased government sanctions ).
Because of this coming shortage, from fuel and ore shortages, from governments trying to repeal the Second Amendment through the back door, and because the consumption sector of the economy is going to be dealt a body blow very soon after the stock market crashes ( many corporations are borrowing more for operations than the company is worth ), I'm revising my bare minimums up slightly. Revolver ammunition, 1k. Semi pistol, 5k. Bolt rifles, 7k. Semi rifles, 25k. Rimfire bolt, 15k. Semi rimfire, 30k ( this is for a rimfire used as a Forever Gun ). Shotgun the same as pistols.
Does this mean you might need to go lower quality on the ammo? Probably. Although I'd most likely rely on reloading before I get too cheap of crap. I've heard bad things on the cheaper rimfire, the latest stuff. I would trust Tula ammo, but do your own research on Wolf ( I won't use it ). What I did on my Enfield was to concentrate on the cases, getting that as cheap as possible, THEN worried about reloading components. To me, I wasn't too concerned with what the case was, or who from. I just knew that the weak link.
These figures might shock and dismay you. I hope you realize that just as industrial Oil Age wheat will soon no longer be a thing, neither will affordable ammunition. There are tons of guns out there. But ammunition is THAT weak link. If you cannot swing feeding a semi, go with a manual action. If you think it is a good idea, or are with a group that thinks they can survive blowing through ammo after the apocalypse, you don't have any idea what an apocalypse is. Go back to your lame ammo stockpile, slap a FLIR on your gun and count your MRE's. You'll die soon enough where you'll avoid almost all the unpleasantness.
( .Y. )
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Right. Ammo, the currency of the new millenium. I would encourage Minions to consider with the Jim recommended stocking numbers to go pro with storage of their ammo. G.I. cans get pricey in quantities needed, but getting 25% or so in good deep storage mode will be important long term. Vacuum sealing or proper wrap storage modes will preserve things. The future is unkown so prep your kit accordingly, just like with the aforementioned food storage topics.ReplyDelete
I'm loving my vacuum sealer even more. 200 pre-cut one side already sealed one foot bags, $27Delete
That is 14 cents a foot. Kept in the ammo box, at least 100 carbine rounds per foot bag. Place sealed ammo in a trash bag inside a cardboard box, itself wrapped in packing tape, then the box wrapped in a thick trash bag. $2-$3 for a thousand rounds of ammo, waterproofed ( preferably buried inside a shelter such as a barn, shed, basement ). Not saying this is preferred or perfect, just an option.
Yes, good plans. Consider placements off of floors a foot or two, j.i.c. of flooding. I used cinderblocks and plank boards. Always those details on top of detail contingency.Delete
Why all the fuss and expense? I've been using boxes similar to the link for decades with no problems. They have spent extensive time in the high humidity and heat of a Florida garage and the below zero, dry air of Indiana. The oldest ammo looks brand new and a bow will hold more than 1000 loose rounds of .223. The latches are very positive, they have locking lugs to keep kids out, and they have rubber seals on the lids. I usually buy them at Rural King at about $15 for 2, olive drab. Currently I have 44 of them and all are filled to capacity. Always buying more, then filling them up. I put a piece of blue tape marked with the caliber on the lid and another on the latch side so I can find what I want instantly. BTW, a box with 1000 rds of loose .223 weighs about 27 lbs, so plan accordingly. .22's seem to weigh more but I have never set them on the scale. 12ga seems the lightest.Delete
Guess I should actually provide the link I was referring: https://www.amazon.com/Plano-Ammunition-Field-Storage-Green/dp/B004W3WC84/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=ammo+boxes&qid=1577555034&sr=8-6Delete
Look! Only $4.88 each, Prime. Whoa - think I'm gonna go load up, get about 10 or 20.
Damn! Very affordable.Delete
Turns out there is a 4 box limit. I ordered 4 and got my wife to buy 4 too. I told my son and 3 other shooters I know. Looks like the seller is trying to get rid of his inventory for some reason. shrugDelete
They want to introduce a smaller box using crappier plastic, at double the price.Delete
I worked as a Physical Therapist.
I saw the results of going macho with a 12-gauge.
I put one woman on permanent disability after she disintegrated her shoulder on her first shot during Law Enforcement Official training.
Others were able to rehabilitate... but not completely.
After decades of hunting, my family switched to 20-gauge Black© powder in hopes of prolonging the inevitable.
Twenty years old, it is easy to go Full Retard with a shotgun. Get a little older, you realize you might be a retard with the wrong supplies. You guys keep the ninja mode, I'll do my close defense with a girl gun 38.Delete
The most common problem is not holding the gun properly and bad posture. A 12ga ain't a .22 but most people shoot them like they are the same, and suffer the consequences.Delete
One little tip is to transfer the load. Transfer the kick from your shoulder to the gun by using the recoil to jack the next round into the chamber. It takes practice and you have to unlearn the bad stuff you already know. In time, with practice, you too will be able to put 9 rounds from a Rem 870 on 33 yd target in less than 10 seconds.Delete
Consider a 12 gauge goose gun for drone control.ReplyDelete
10 ga. New England Firearms single shot....FTW!Delete
I’d recommend the 12ga 3.5” over a 10ga. With the newer 12ga 3.5” chambering, the 10ga is pretty much obsolete now. The difference in the width of the shells between the two is nominal. Previously, it was the extra 1/2” that you could get in the 10ga that gave it a real boost over the 12ga, but now that feature is gone.Delete
I have a 12ga single shot shotgun. Yeah, it’s painful, even with the low base loads, and even when I was young. And I hate to say this, but if you’re out in the field, or happen to stumble across an abandoned cabin, if there are reloadable empties on the ground, or a box of shotgun shells on the shelf, they will be 12ga in most cases. One way around such ammo restrictions is to have a gauge reducer. I don’t what sizes that they come in, but I know that they sold one for my Steven’s 12ga, called the “.410’er” that allowed what the name implies, for your 12ga. These gauge reducers will only work in a single barrel or double barrel, due to the open nature of the action, so that’s something to keep in mind when getting a shotgun. I’d plan on getting a 12ga, with a gauge reducer, at the same time.ReplyDelete
I actually did what Marge suggested one time, and loaded up some 12ga black powder loads for my antiques. But one thing to keep in mind is that real black powder (and even most of the substitutes) melt plastic something fierce. In this scenario, you would want to use the one brand left (whose name escapes me, but Ballistic products still sells them) that are still paper hulls. You would probably also want to bypass the plastic shot cup. Just use an over the powder card, with a 1/2” fiber wad, the shot, topped off with an over the shot card. If you’re worried about loose patterns, use some shot buffer, again, avoiding the plastic variety (In the olden days shot buffer was powdered bone). And just a heads up: Black powder shotgun shells are loud as hell, and it sounds like you’re setting off a cannon. I forget the scientific explanation for this, but take my word for it; they’re louder than Richard Simmons, in a San Francisco bathhouse :D
Personally, I’d avoid rounds that are high enough velocity, that I would need to rely on jacketed bullets, since lead is a lot more plentiful and affordable, and I can mould my own. But that’s just me...
I agree on jacketed bullets. No plans at all to reload 223, just use steel case. Not being a marksman, I don't worry about distance.Delete
Yep,those reducers are the shizzle. Single shot shotgun stocks are designed to enhance recoil (too much drop), producing 'flip'. Coupled with lightweight construction firing a big shell, the result - recoil in spades.Delete
The reducers doubles your choice of shells - that is versatility. Worth buying several 12 - 20 gauge reducers - it will become valuable.
I have a break open Savage 24 22lr/20g. Maybe I should sell off all my other firearms and convert the proceeds into ammo? I'm under no illusions about being a WOLVERINE!!!!ReplyDelete
I could get a second Savage 24 in 22mag/20g for my offsider. 20g being for close in protection. Rimfire for dispatching snared animals humanely.
Then again, maybe I should stop trying to get teh bestest firearm?
Perhaps just sell a select few, don't go too crazy, and buy more ammo. But excess guns, in your situation ( excess gun control ), might be needed for tribe.Delete
I've got 1 per adult in my family living in walking distance from Fort Dingo. I looked at Savage 24's available online and there's a rare 357/20g but ouch asking price. TBF their all ouch asking prices and whilst I theoretically could get it the 22mag/20g would be more practicalDelete
Practicality should win this race I'd imagine.Delete
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
The Russians know how to build weapons. Another "Yankee Ingenuity" torch passed to others.Delete
If I had no guns I would buy a standard Ruger 10/22 and about 10 extra magazines, a cleaning kit with accessories, then whatever money I had left I would spend all of it on .22 ammo with the ultimate goal of having 10,000 rounds on hand. Without looking it up, I believe all of that can be done for less than $500. But maybe it's unrealistic to think that any adult that doesn't already have a gun and experience would do such a thing. Maybe I'm an exception but I've owned guns continuously since I was 18 years old and had access to them since I was 8. So the idea of an adult male not having possession of and extensive experience with guns is sort of foreign to me.ReplyDelete
Right, it feels strange to talk about what firearm to buy with fifty plus year olds, but you never know who is a newbie or an old hand.Delete
GS , I'm right there with you on the 10/22. Just make certain all the extra mags are Ruger brand only.Delete
Went with a ruger American in 22lr.Delete
Takes the same mag as the 10/22.
A little more ammo conservation.
Yes, nothing quite like handicapping oneself.Delete
I bought a slingshot and unhooked one of the rubbers so I could conserve ball bearings. /sarc
The 12 gauge shotgun can read your mind. If you're afraid of it, holding it gingerly, lightly against your shoulder, it'll kick you like an angry mule. If you pull it in tight to your shoulder, and also lean forward into it, the recoil is significantly lighter. There is no reason for any 12 gauge to injure a persons shoulder unless there is a preexisting shoulder weakness, or something like a five pound single shot gun with an unpadded buttstock shooting a magnum turkey load. Marge's female customer who got jacked up by one round had to be scared prior to, or didn't get proper instruction on how to hold it.ReplyDelete
More training than usual on this weapon, granted, and that is not a bad thing, but I still think it is a specialists weapon more than a general issue one. If a novice/casual user is going to use, use a 20.Delete
I’m the dude with the Steven’s single shot 12ga above. Mine is fitted with a recoil pad. Truthfully, it really isn’t so bad to shoot with the low base loads, but after about a box, your shoulder does feel it. There is also the option to port the barrel, which I’m told makes quite a bit of difference. I got mine when I was 14 years old, and I was a scrawny 14 year old, and I never regretted getting a 12ga. But I’m from a different generation, when there were only two genders, no safe spaces, and boy’s didn’t imagine that they were females, filling waste baskets with brown tampons :D But in all seriousness, yes, I get your point, and a 20ga is probably a better choice for females, or the infirm.Delete
I believe that it was Harrington and Richardson, that sold a really nice single shot shotgun, by the name of the “Deluxe Topper Model”. It was a 12ga single shot, with a 3.5” chamber, and it had a steel counter weight in the rear stock to absorb recoil. Nicest single shot 12ga on the market, but I don’t think that company is in business anymore?
H&R also did that with the Turkey model. You can do the same thing with your Stevens. Remove one screw from the buttstock, and you can go down to your local steel supply shop and get a custom-fit steel rod to fit in the bolt cavity. The poor man way is to jam pack the cavity with cheap #8 bird shot until it won't accept a single additional pellet. It was sad to see H&R stop making the single shots, but at least you can still get them from Henry USA for twice as much as H&R used to sell them for.Delete
Also, Federal just came out with a line of shorter 12 gauge rounds in buck and slugs for reduced recoil.
There are also reduced recoil buck rounds from Remington (8 pellet) that are pleasant to shoot and give good patterns.
7K rounds for EACH boltie & 25K rounds for semis?ReplyDelete
WTH Lord Bison you think minions have pockets full of gold?
Hell, I'd sell the semis and keep the
.30-06 & .270 bolties and sock away more ammo, cleaning kits and accessories (ie glass, rings, parts,bi-pod etc).
If you can't kill whatever "it" is with a .30-06...it's INVINCEABLE & your screwed.
I don't believe in "affordable" ammo. Go top drawer or not at all. Buy an "acceptable" gun but splurge on quality ammo. Sync up ammo to quirks of your gun. I'm sure many strongly disagree.
Turn in your man card for buying cheap ammo. Its a waste of an excellent gun to run cheap ammo.
No, 7k for each TYPE of boltie. I have four Enfields, but a total of 7k rounds. I can only use one at a time. The others are parts guns ( I bought them cheap enough when that was practical ). I have three .22 rifles, but just 15k rounds. I have three AR's, just 7k rounds ( they are bolt action ). Had to bury some of those, plus soon to be outlawed/jacked in price, which is the reason for so many. All military guns are designed to use crap ammo, even the Enfields. Even the AR's. They are for recruits, lead slingers, not marksmen. Even the Soviet designated marksmen were using AK style designed rifles shooting machinegun ammo. For survivalism, the crap ammo means much more ammo. So, you use the gun that was designed to improve the crap ammo. The Enfield no4 was a 2 MOA gun out the factory door, half that of the Garand, or the old Enfield no1. The middlin AR with the cheapest ammo still gets 2 MOA. I don't believe in wasting ammo, which is why I don't do semi, but quality ammo does not match my skill set.Delete
I don't know why more people don't reload.ReplyDelete
We even take it further and make our own bullets (both copper wrapped and lead molded types) for both hand and long guns. That's in a big variety of calibers too.
Once you are at that level, there are only a few remaining components to make sure you have plenty of -- primer and brass...can't make those.
Reloading is very important in this long mess we're in.
I used to shoot competitively while I was in the military.ReplyDelete
I didn't have the time or space to reload, so I shot a lot of steel-cased ammo.
I have used perhaps ten thousand rounds of Tula. Since they went with the predominately zinc-plated bullets, quality has really dropped off. IMHO Tula is now only good as a training tool.....it will cause malfunctions that you will practically never see with other brands (including most Wolf). Tula is underpowered and dirtier than any other ammo. It is rare for me to go 100 rounds without malf(s)......that just doesn't happen with other ammos. It is as good as mixing in snap caps for clearance drills, so it does have its uses. (quick note: this is all handgun oriented. I stopped using Tula rifle ammo ages ago for safety concerns....I had two squibs in a single box of ammo.)
Wolf is usually pretty good, though that is only a brand name and they contract out production to other factories (occasionally including Tula). If you buy Wolf, learn the factory names and the ones to avoid.
Golden Tiger, Brown Bear and Red Army Standard are all much better steel-cased ammo brands for only a little more.
12ga breakopen shotgun can become low recoil with short cartridges. If you have a Mossberg 500 or 590 or an 870 with a tube magazine, it adds two-thirds to number of shots and almost doubles the number of extras that fit in your pocket-bag. https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/aguila-ammunition-minishell-12-gauge-shotshells#repChildCatSku=115863439ReplyDelete
Interesting comment about 00 performance. 10 yard pattern said to be much wider than full length shell. The combination of wide spread angle and lower recoil will result in better second shot recovery and accuracy. I would want cases of these (and shorty slugs!) if I carried a Shockwave.
They don't seem too expensive for a specialty round. What's the catch?Delete