Wednesday, December 4, 2019

civilization infrastructure


CIVILIZATION INFRASTRUCTURE
A minion was recounting his experience with hunting and gathering. It was EXTREMELY illuminating ( November 26 article, Demented Guy, 9:59 PM posting in comments ), at least to me, as I was holding the gentle minion up as my example of someone who could make a go of it with few stored foods, if anyone could. That in no way faults DG, as he is quite knowledgeable and industrious, going far beyond all of our abilities. His point was it was nearly impossible to get enough of your own food, even in an area abundant with nut trees and wildlife.
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He had to return to civilization to restore the fat he lost while living as Danial Boone. Now, I could use this as an example to once again remind you of the basics of storage food, but we all know that. More wheat than you can imagine needing, some for sprouting for fresh veggies, long lasting fat ( shortening ), as many beans as you can afford for protein and vitamin pills. What I'd like to cover is the hidden need of civilization's infrastructure that we know exists but don't give enough importance to post collapse.
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You read, “feather Indians had abundant fish and nut trees”, and you think, hey, my area has abundant wildlife and food trees, so I'm in like Flynn. But that ignores the infrastructure that the Indians had in place to be assured of that food supply. They either had thinned competitors of that food, such as deer for the vegetation or bears for the fish, or eliminated them altogether in that area. In other words, you can't share and still have enough. Which includes sharing with other tribes. There were how many generations of warfare behind that abundance?
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Which might include offensive warfare to continue keeping encroachment minimized. I had to laugh my very junk off the other day. I'm reading a new to me book, “History Of The World In Seven Cheap Things” by Patel and Moore, the very cream of modern universities, pull some really stupid crap out of their backsides trying to refute Malthus. And I quote, “but carrying capacities swell or shrink depending on who rules”. This is the best minds Rhodes and Binghamton can field. Just think about that quote. In essence, it's all about politics, not resources. This sounds EXACTLY like a low information voter pulling the lever for Bernie.
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And that was just a few pages into the introduction, so I know what I have in store for me the next few hundred pages. Luckily for me, these idiots are still capable of making some good points on capitalism, and is written in a pleasant manner, so I didn't waste money on the thing. I just need to refrain from hurling the object far from me in anger, potentially necessitating a drywall repair, as I continue reading. Which brings me to their other moronic statement, which ties in here. They thought that if the kings didn't “steal” all the crops from the serfs, there never would have been famine ( despite the shift to colder weather ) if only the serfs had more food to eat, minimizing the Black Plague.
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Yes, plague shows up with a vengeance during times of hunger. And yes, a king COULD extract too many crops from the serfs on land failing due to overpopulation. But you cannot ignore two important aspects. The King was not JUST there to be a parasitic bandit. These jerk-off's must be Libertardians. Kings also protect against the other kings. They are a necessity to safeguard the food, even if their price for doing so is a percentage.
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And ALL of Europe was affected similarly from the plague. Either every king was greedy and short sided, or crap like weather does matter. Friggin DUH! This brings us around to infrastructure. There was not enough surplus to protect against future failed crops. This probably had little to do with any administrative issues. As population increased in neighboring kingdoms, the tendency to gain resources through war would need to be counteracted by increasing your own population to protect against that.
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This was not a failing of feudalism. That system was the way forward after the Roman civilization collapsed, the only way to maintain governance after the end of trade. Remember, trade requires surplus, because you are feeding men and animals that do nothing but transportation. Which is more costly in energy because THOSE calorie consuming units must in turn be protected by a military with a monopoly on force. The US with its eighty year old obsolete technology still rules the waves, because its job is not to defeat other navies but to protect the shipping lanes.
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The shrinking food and overpopulation was a failing of infrastructure, which is a feature of agriculture. No matter what type of government rules farmland, the civilization always fails. Even rice empires still denude surrounding areas and crash, regardless if the paddies still stand. If population grows, eventually you exhaust the soil. You don't have to run OUT of food, you just have to run out of ENOUGH food. Which is EXACTLY the same if you grow with oxen and oxen crap or tractors and petroleum products.
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Today, any discussion of resources is drowned out with that of politics, as in the above book. Even the Club Of Rome dude over at Cassandra's seems to be focused on politics rather than resources, embarrassingly. Yes, Tiny Tim, politics does effect food distribution and protection, but it does NOT produce food past a certain point. In the US, we face two very dangerous trends, corn to corporate profit fuel and immigration eating the remaining corn. But this is about politics controlling surplus. Thankfully. For now, anyway. But I'll bet you a jelly filled donut ( and not just ANY donut, but raspberry, with real fruit ) that Deplorables are starving before those policies are changed.
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When the fracking oil stops pumping from bankers failing or the wells production plummeting ( we are already at Fracking Peak, and the right side plunge will not match the left side growth ), and at that moment foreigners all dump the PetroDollar, while at the same time the Chinese Road & Belt takes over Old World transportation, we don't have enough resources to feed ourselves. The infrastructure WILL fail from Not Enough Oil, not from NO oil.
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Hell, our infrastructure is already failing from lack of surplus. Why do you think we'll still be able to feed ourselves when right now we can't even protect the existing structure we built up. We have semi-sovereign entities already occupying large areas ( Black hoods, southern border, California ). If THAT infrastructure is failing, how do we feed those areas? Continued tomorrow.
( .Y. )
( today's related Amazon link click HERE )
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note: free for today books.  Hard to tell if it's just sci-fi, or there is a bit of Racing To Save The World From Ending element.  I wouldn't normally recommend but it sounds strange enough to check out HERE 
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47 comments:

  1. http://voxday.blogspot.com/2019/11/legend.html
    "China just announced they would allow rice imports from the U.S. for the first time in their history. Read that again. Trump just sold rice to CHINA. What a f*cking legend."

    Vox Day blogged about this as if it is a really great thing. I would prefer that we keep our food in the United States.

    Although that is another way people will starve in the USA. Grain and other food will be sold overseas for a profit while Americans starve.

    Got wheat (or rice)?

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    1. Are you sure this wasn't just "tariff war propaganda"?

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    2. Chicoms bought Smithfield pork operations, as such they can, may, could, probably, redirect food stocks back home in all those containers on rail going westbound through Elko back to the ports. They are sneaky smart getting foot in the door from their belt and road inroads into other nations business etc. hell, "senator" Feinstein had a spy as her driver, amongst all the hidden graft and influence buying.

      Got your own damned wheat?

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    3. But wouldn't they still be subject to tariffs and export bans? What am I missing here?

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    4. I like to use history as a cheat sheet for the future. During their collapse Argentineans starved whilst Argentina exported food to Europe.

      Senator FumanChu will declare that we "will let the free market to correct itself" and stop any trade restrictions on food being exported. No strikes at the Chinese owned and run port either.

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    5. During the potato famine, Ireland exported food to England while Irish literally collapsed and died by the side of the road.

      There's a reason Ireland stood neutral in WWII.

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    6. Smithfield is owned by a Chinese corporation and it's well known that their Virginia processing plant ships 100% of the butchered pork back to China. That plant was retooled specifically for the China market -- what goes to China is quartered and frozen for further processing after arrival.

      Smithfield is only one business within the pork industry. Wish the Chinese weren't allowed to buy an American business but our government has allowed America to be sold to the highest bidders, to our detriment.

      Raise your own pigs -- Tamworths are fantastic. My next venture will be with the smaller, heritage Guinea Hogs. They're about the easiest farm animal to have.

      Modern Throwback

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    7. Hookers and blow profit know no nationality!

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    8. Alex-I think the Irish had a few more centuries of hatred. The Famine was just the latest. On the plus side, the Brits taught the East Coast Blue Bloods how to properly colonize and exploit.

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  2. There is a shrinking slack in the systems and resources that is nearing the elimination of surpluses for growth and barely enough sustaining commodities for basic maintenance or level of living standards. Add to that bad management and bad governance screwing the poochey even more so.

    Raise prices in Chile, a peaceful country and they go beserker in the streets. Iranians knowing full well they are under a brutal theocratic dictatorship still protest in the streets from just economically motivated causes and dozens shot down. Iraq as well. Examples of the pressures that are being turned up in the real world.

    Enough NICS background gun checks done on buyers on black friday was enough one day purchase of "small arms", to arm up the Marine Corps. That sez something right there folks.

    Stay Frosty.

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    1. Be wary of all these protests perhaps being funded by Soros, US Intel organizations or other evil bitches. It would send a false signal. Love your point on the gun purchases! Great way of looking at it.

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    2. Exactly!! "The Resistance", aka manufactured chaos for 'social justice', brought about by Soros and Deep State/CIA operatives. Arab Spring had to look like a people's movement in order for the Middle East to change. Who believes those inbred, 4th century idiots could manage those changes on their own?

      Many people haven't yet realized the same groups pushing the same agenda are behind the US "Resistance" to transform the US via Occupy, Antifa, and the idiot SWJs: anti-Trumpers, LGBTers, open-borders advocates, movements for anti-2A & anti-1A, etc. Here in the US, we have our own batch of idiots: 'libtards'.

      Modern Throwback

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    3. Great thing about a global Depression-kind of humps the globalists. Gott Damn Rothschild Scum

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  3. You might be able to get by foraging full time, if you loved near the equator, in a tropical, or semi-tropical region. For everyone else, you would need storage. The most independent men of all time, the early rocky mountain trappers and explorers, still needed to attend their annual rendezvous, in order to obtain those items that simply could not be reproduced in nature. The key however, was that they minimized the need. And technically, with a little foresight, you could set yourself up to not need to re-enter society for resupply at all (They had furs to trade, so no way around it either way for them).

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    1. Being a jungle bush bitch would probably work, as no one else is foolish enough to want to be out there. Lions and bugs, fungus and snakes, oh my

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    2. Agree with Anon, and sea coast would be even more beneficial. Learning what YOUR locale has for food and how to gather / prepare them is information we all need to do. No matter how much you store, you will eventually run out. If nothing else, natural forage will provide variety of diet that will be welcome.

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    3. re:
      "...jungle, it's what's for supper..."

      KnuckleDraggin' has a video of an intrepid Caucasian explorer on a boat on a muddy river in a jungle...

      ...holding the tail of a swimming anaconda.

      That snake was probably 30ft/10m.
      Enough ka-bobs to feed me and mine in style all week.

      Do I recommend playing with the tail-muscle of a 300# bundle-of-joy?
      Sure.
      I will be the one holding your beer and cheering you on.

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    4. “KnuckleDraggin' has a video of an intrepid Caucasian explorer on a boat on a muddy river in a jungle...

      ...holding the tail of a swimming anaconda.”



      Well, hopefully he didn’t pick up the tricks of the trade from the “Steve Irwin school of stingray wrangling” :D Okay, sorry fans of Steve Irwin. That was in poor taste, even for me :D

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    5. https://serioustravelblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/australia-aboriginal-tribes-map.jpg

      The larger the area, the less dense the available food is.


      In the good 'ole days. Hunter Gatherers / cavemen had to work an estimated 15 hours a week. Stories from when Europeans first landed in Dingoland had the Aborigines not working hard for their tucker. The women would go out foraging which entailed a lot of laughing and walking at a slow pace with kids in tow. The men folk would go out and "hunt" and bring back some meat.

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    6. Anonymous - My father was an unusual guy, and the 1950s/1960s were a pretty interesting time in that just about everyone had access to whatever tech they wanted, and there was still a bit of a "frontier" feeling. (Que song: "King Of The Road")

      I remember my dad raving about a guy who'd come up with a sort of harness to harness a shark in; it was a sort of frame that was rigid to keep the shark from just turning around and biting the user I guess, but the idea was the guy's catch a shark, not a super big one, stick it in this thing, and then use it like one of those powered "sled" things divers use that they hang onto while the "sled" does the work of moving through the water.

      It's too bad about Steve Irwin. Two of the nicest creatures on the Planet, a sting ray and Steve Irwin, and one of 'em has to die because of a misunderstanding.

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    7. Could the shark shoot laser beams from his head?

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  4. "When the fracking oil stops pumping...while at the same time the Chinese Road & Belt takes over Old World transportation..."

    Uh, excuse me...if the premier military and economic force in world history falters due to Peak Fracking then how do Chinese run their (overhyped) road and belt enterprise? Do they revert to ox cart or rickshaw ?

    The last drop of refined petroleum consumed on Earth will be right here in USA. Bet on it. Either home produced or from crude stripped out of a well in durka durka land courtesy of a Marine Expeditionary Unit. By then, China will be on second course of wide scale cannalbism.

    Maintained soil doesn't exhaust. Chinese have kept farming same fields for 40 centuries. (Book:Farmers of 40 centuries). Problem was Chinese increased geometrically while new fields are added arithmetically (Malthus in a nutshell). Most of China's misfortune was stomaches got hungry before new fields added to supply. Marginal fields higher up the terrace not as fertile INITIALLY but people revolted before fertility increased enough to feed extra mouths. A study in marginal analysis for sure.

    Even abused herbicide soaked ground in US can be restored in a few years (less than 4?). Not up to theoretical maximum yield but healing and increasing pretty dramatically. For instance, Old Order Amish population outgrew core zone in Penn & Ohio. Their new settlements in upstate NY breathed life into "farmed out" places like Chautauqua Co.
    I've followed story of one, Nathan Weaver, shaky start but a turnaround on a farm that had been continously hayed (stripped) for preceeding 30 years.
    Nothing magical about horse farming or Amish other than implementing old basics like rotation, manuring, mixed animal & cropping mix (no continous corn/soy) and lessening herbicides use.

    Of course, lots of people will go hungry during the 3-4 yr soil recovery. But we have reserve capacity for a long time. Just need to use that time well. Food price increases coupled with fast food closures will extend timeframe. A bowl of homemade cornbread and beans has filled many a belly.

    Until then, I need to pick some wild pecans the wind knocked down (that thieving squirrel will fry up good too).

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    1. The Chinese get their oil the same place we are, outside the US. Six million a day doesn't go to US, after our economy crashes and we withdraw military from globe. China SHOULD do fine on that. The main issue, everywhere, is that all the conventional oil is in decline. Everywhere ends up the US after we do. Our economy is THE most exposed, being highly dependent on oil to eat, from centralization. You are correct about regenerating soil, except people won't give it time to recover, as we Balkanize and not all areas are fed from the midwest grain fields.

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    2. I'm of the mind we'll run out of oil before Russia or China. Just cant see our military being strong enough to defeat them and provide security for oil fields.
      I do believe we'll invade and take over the Saudis to slow our demise.

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    3. Saudi Arabia will be worse than Iraq, as far as trying to take the oil. They peaked long ago, hidden by unicorn stats.

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    4. Anon()(), you are very optimistic.

      The US economy is in decline and dying. Even if you are correct about everything you wrote, our current Left Wing nuts who are in power will destroy the US.

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    5. Well, to be fair, BOTH political philosophies will destroy the place.

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  5. Plenty of wild pickin's in these parts . Wild Jerusalem Artichokes for flour and gravy . Walnuts by the trillion . Wildlife by the thousands and Latter Day Saints number 10 cans in the root cellar .

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    1. Beware Mormons. They used to be bad asses, and will be again once the fedgov no longer demands a pretense of meekness.

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    2. Jerusalem Artichokes are good but I'd rather eat potatoes. I like having gardens because I prefer carrots, onions, tomatoes, over lambsquarters and dandelion. Rabbits make fertilizer everyday that can go straight to the garden.
      I struggle living off the land because of things I want, and I might do better without civilization to fall back on. But fat is a bitch to acquire. No bear or moose or beaver. In my area, just raccoon and fish. I can't get salt here, you gotta stock it. Easier to salt fish and pork than to smoke.
      I like to have sugar to make jams and for baking. I don't have any maple trees big enough yet for tapping. I planted 10 maple trees. How many people are going to plant sugar cane and produce sugar? I don't have the time or energy. So I have 300 lbs. in storage.
      Thanks for the mention James, but people just don't realize how thin, the future is going to be. I have tested my skills for large chunks of time and know I could survive, as a Hunter, Gatherer, Gardener, Raising Livestock, and Storage of the other things, Guy. But I'm not leaving one of those five things out.
      Remember that roasted dandelion root taste like shit, I want real coffee for any Apocalypse.

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    3. Mormons are about the only tribe a white person can join in the US that has a chance. They've actually modeled themselves after the Jews, so yes they'll look after each other, but fuck anyone not in the tribe. Great if you're part of said tribe.

      If you're not, don't expect them to look out for you any more than any other member of a tribe you're not in.

      But if you have a suitably white pedigree, don't mind politics to the right of Richard Nixon's, and don't mind raising your kids believing in the earth being flat if the Elders decide it's flat, then go for it.

      At any level you're going to participate in, believing the earth is flat isn't going to matter. giving up the germ theory of disease would be a mistake, but an awful lot of science really doesn't matter, as much as we've been told it does.

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    4. Geez, I only WISH we still had politics to the right of Nixon.

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    5. DG-I'm hoping your experience lights a fire under a lot of minions asses. It might even actually make all those aching muscles almost worth it. I appreciate it, anyway. Even I learned something-I wasn't as paranoid as I thought I was over food production.

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    6. The LDS or Mormons, have changed considerably over the years, and not for the better (Unless of course, you are a leftist). I know, because I used to be one. I heard something more recently that you never really hear from mainstream sources, but it was basically to the effect that the divorce rate among Mormons isn’t very low anymore, as it once was. Well, the reason for that is obvious, and it’s because Mormon women have become increasingly feminist over the years. The church is also becoming increasingly faggot friendly. Mark my words, some day, a future profit will receive a revelation from “god”, that Elder Tad, will now be able to pound Elder Biff’s “glory hole”, in holy matrimony :D You will also see women in positions of authority (The quickest path to destruction for any civilization). In fact, there is some feminist mormon group that is actively seeking to make this change within the church.

      The only groups that practice Mormonism as it was originally intended, are the LDS splinter groups. Unfortunately, many of them practice polygamy, which if you’re a horny young man, might sound enticing. But it’s not, for more than a few reasons. First off, all the higher ups get all the women, leaving a shortage of women. This results in the condition known as the “lost boy’s” of the LDS church. That is, the surplus males are booted from the community, and they often do not fare well on their own. Another problem is that it’s against the US governments religion (That’s my attempt at irony :D ) to leave such groups alone. And of course, the inevitable accusation of “they’re diddling little girls” comes about, and the next thing you know, some cigar munching bull dyke (May she burn in hell for all eternity, if such a place exists) sends the national guard down to the religious compound to level it (And yes, I know it was the branch davidians, but it makes no difference) along with the “little girls that they were trying to protect” and all.

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    7. The Elders can also get a divine command to go Old School and change back to being conservative, if needs must for group survival. Don't give up all hope for them

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    8. Demented,
      We struggled with the unrealistic goal of 100% self-reliance and decided that we could not achieve that goal. Salt, pepper, flour, sugar, coffee, and tobacco are the top products that were commonly purchased at the old general stores (or trading posts) a century ago. Researching old store ledgers will show this to be true.

      Depending upon your climate, you might be able to grow your own sugar in a more 'raw' form. Sorghum is an easy crop if you are in Zone 6-9 in the US and it can be used as a grain (flour), popcorn, or molasses (from the syrup). Keeping bees for honey is another way to have 'sugar'. The 20th century brought processed, granulated sugar into the household but it is NOT necessary....we will need to adapt to other methods of sweeteners. Many jams can be sweetened with honey, and the pectin can be made from apples. I have made jams without pectin (slow cooks, double-cooks, etc). The time to convert is now!

      I have never experimented with tobacco (non-smoking household), and figured that once the coffee was gone, it was gone....our climate will not support coffee or tea bushes. Adapt and overcome.

      Fat? Look backwards.....pigs. In days of yore (and now, if you talk w/ farmers and homesteaders), pigs provide an enormous bounty to a farmer/homesteader.

      Modern Throwback

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    9. You don't have a lifetime supply of coffee? In my case, I call that five years. The apocalypse is bad enough without coffee. You might as well show up without ammo.

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    10. Anon 7:12 I am planning on trying out a few hogs next spring.
      Have thought about bees, have planted some roses that produced some hips. Trying to get enough flowers going to make some bees happy.
      I have three hawthorn trees on my property. Have been told the haws are used in canning for natural pectin. Something to try in the future.
      My main problem, being alone on my journey, is time. I have so many irons in the fire that I am having trouble moving forward. So many normal chores take priority, just to live, that everything else keeps getting delayed. Thanks

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    11. We havve about 2 years of coffee put back, and we replace as we use all the time. I have lived w/out coffee every time I was pregnant -- not the end of the world as we know it. 'Course I was younger then....lol

      Guess we would probably save grinds, dry them, and reuse for a double-dip-drip. Or something. Have been thinking of new system w/ green coffee beans, but the aroma swirling around these woods might be too much of a scented lure for zombies.
      Modern Throwback

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    12. I think about 99% of the oils are leeched out the first use-using again would probably be just a placebo. When "we" got pregnant, we both stopped smoking. It was easy, but we sure didn't lose any time lighting right back up again ( only to quit rather quickly as Fertile Myrtle got knocked up again-the kids birthdays are 14 months apart ). My dad used to stop smoking every year at the beginning of basketball. Still going at 79, puffing away. I've given up smoking and soda, but never coffee. My faithful companion through my life working. Of course one COULD give it up. One COULD become celibate. One just shudders at the prospect.

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    13. Demented,
      Bees will fly past your property line because they can. You can be happy growing flowers for them, and the bees will also be happy you have flowers, but they'll still travel. LOL Drones, being drones, will go out and search for pollens and their signals will transmit the info to their hive, regardless of your nice efforts. Getting into bees will open up a network of beekeeper for you, so don't hold off because you aren't sure you can handle the workload...you'll have kind folks to help guide you.

      We sure do understand the time commitment with growing your own. Try to look at the overall homestead as if it's a life-rhythm rather than just a bunch of chores.

      Great that you'll get pigs! Get STRONG fencing for pigs beforehand. They need very little for housing in the majority of the States. One tip -- be sure to give them a sound when they are fed...that way if they escape, you can call them back with that sound. Ask me how I know! :-)

      Pigs are so shit-simple. If you plan to butcher your own, have an assistant! Butchering makes for a long day and having help makes a difference. There is reason for friends/neighbors lending a hand when it's butcher season! We don't boil ours, we skin. Sausage can be made the second day, but your main cuts should be taken care of the day of the butchering. And we don't brine the hams until later, then we do them one at a time, before cooking.

      So glad you'll get into raising a pig or 2!
      Modern Throwback

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    14. James,
      I really should try 2nd brew coffee to decide what it tastes like. Probably is nasty....lol

      BTW, my hair is worshipful, just so you know...very thick, fairly straight, past my waist, and no dye or 'product', just natural. :-)
      Modern Throwback

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    15. I will ignore your blasphemy involving your sad pathetic hair. Damn hippies!

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  6. King's Farmers of 40 Centuries details an American dept of ag official's visit and observations. The Chinese achieved nearly total nutrient cycling (all human waste, old straw mats, etc) and were able to continuously farm generation after generation.
    What King glosses over is the grinding reality for the farmers and their families: 24/7 endless labor, chronic undernourishment, plenty of internal parasites.

    And good on the Amish for what they accomplish using techniques about 100 years removed from modern industrial ag. But that doesn't mean they are exempt from losing top soil over time.

    Interesting are the Amazon terra preta soils and biochar as possibilities (among many) for,building long-lived very fertile soil.

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    1. It's easy to keep up soil. You just need plenty of inputs from elsewhere. Easy until Malthus arrives.

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    2. Well, you got a choice...be DEAD forever from starvation or suffer some period of hunger /malnutrition while soil fertility restored and the horde dies out. Grasshopper meet ant.

      Amish farming techniques are nearly identical to that of late '50s. Many non-Amish farms, even at that late date, had "mixed power". 4-5 horses did just fine to harrow a field, plant or cut hay/pickup bales on 200-250 acre farms. Heavy field work like plowing, baling or combining done by tractor.
      It is the idea of work seasonality and farm size that are determinants for power needs. Now, it's impossible to plant 900-1500 acres of corn with horses in correct timeframe.

      The inclusion of animals (draft, milk, wool/lamb) also diversified farm income back then. Now, farm income is just corn, soy and gov't subsidized insurance check.

      Having to "fuel" the horses required a bit of pasturage (small), hay ground and oats.
      These requirements imposed a rotation system on those farms. Crop rotation builds soil health.
      Iowa has a distorted rotation system now...corn, soybeans, Miami vacation. Lather, rinse, repeat. Year after year after year.

      Modern industrial ag has led to lower protein wheat & corn as the touted N-P-K paradigm has burned up soil organic matter (SOM). Also, terrible water retention ability. More disastrous floods & drougthy soil now from loss of SOM, loss of tilth. The ills of modern ag and the input salesman/university extension are monumental.

      Soil loss on Amish farms is minimal compared to mega size farmers. First, need for pasture/hay protects soil thus no bare ground. Second, many Amish sow down winter rye or spelt after corn, thus soil has winter cover which lessens erosion. They don't signup for govt insurance to cover up their mismangement.

      A colossal JD combine rutting up a wet Oct corn field and leaving the ground unsown is what really causes erosion and soil loss.

      Jim, I don't know where you get notions about all these "purchased inputs". The 19th C guano story takes up too much cranial space. Most farms can produce most of their own fertility. Scant amounts of imported minerals or lime are about all that's needed. Yields a bit lower but test weight and nutritional content higher. Quality over quantity. Higher quality crops make for higher quality animals and the humans that eat them. Just that simple.



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    3. Africa now, and Europe centuries ago ( and China more recently ) didn't get to famine from poor farming practice. They get there from overpopulation shrinking the amount of land that is excess, helping to feed the soil you are farming. Nobody starves people to build up the soil-they let the soil slowly degrade. The US has a terrible history of not caring for soil. It has SOME farms that are reversing that, test beds. But they can do that because of the surplus of food coming from the destructive practices. In effect, hobby farms do it right, while soil depleting farms feed everyone. The hobby farms can't feed us. And the big farms doing it right still need petroleum inputs. The US cannot feed 333 million without that.

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