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Wednesday, March 8, 2017

arsenal ammo amount


ARSENAL AMMO AMOUNT

The amount of ammunition one should acquire for collapse purposes is, like a lot of things, pretty arbitrary.  I live in a small dwelling ( 400 square feet ) and think of it as almost too big for two people.  You might think that you need that much space merely for the first child.  They used to have a standard of 900 square feet for a average size family but now the pampered puke Yuppie Scum turn their nose up at anything under three thousand square feet ( because, you know, what with the fracking miracle and all, cheap natural gas will be available to keep it heated pretty much forever-which is another arbitrary standard.  I get way too hot after 63 degrees, but others insist on seventies plus ).  The size of the “ideal” arsenal is arbitrary.  I think three guns, four at the most ( 30 cal, 357 pistol, forever gun.  At most, 30 cal, large caliber pistol, forever gun pistol, forever gun rifle ) is all you will ever need, but I’d get shouted down by shotgun lovers, carbine commandoes, etc.  No answer is 100% correct, because of everyone’s differing arbitrary standards.

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All you can do is give the reasons for your standards and hope they make sense to other people, at which point the men will enviously aspire to be just like you and the ladies will throw their panties at you in a desperate bid to carry your children.  Actually, that probably wouldn’t happen with me, since the species couldn’t handle that kind of evolutionary exponential hurdle upwards, so I’m safe from fanatical fans out there.  Now, we’ve all read differences of opinion on the amounts of ammo which are ideal.  The semi-auto crowd speaks of hundreds of rounds as a combat load, seemingly taking their numbers from the Vietnam conflict where the cannon fodder humped at a minimum half their body weight through humid jungle as both Charles and the General were amazed-simply amazed I tells ya!- how easy it was to find the lumbering body of infantrymen.  This was the police action ( you can’t lose a war if you don’t call it one ) that included the statistic of twenty thousand rounds per casualty ( and that was with inflated body count numbers ). 

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In that conflict, ammunition expenditure were actually a good thing.  Nothing stimulates the economy in a plummeting EROI environment like a good military action where everyone is trained to dump as much lead downrange as humanly possible.  Actually, as Inhumanly possible, given the weight the grunt were expected to carry.  Hell, introduce a new carbine and round just so we can manufacture more ammo!  And the guys can carry twice the rounds!  MORE!!!  MORE AMMO!!!!!  A hundred years previously, the Army thought a seven round lever action would bankrupt the Union and cause logistical nightmares, but later at the end of the very short lived ( call it fifty years ) Cheap Oil Age,  you couldn’t waste enough ammo.  Electric Gatling guns, anyone?  Today, because the military is even more moronic then back in Vietnam ( if I was a bookie and placing odds on who was more retarded, CEO’s or Generals, I’d have a hard time deciding ), they learned nothing and still use infantry armed with submachineguns to act as tripwires for artillery ( to include air and naval arty ) strikes.  The only reason we can afford the ammo usage is because there are so many fewer grunts and airships and navy platforms now.

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I’ve been talking about Peak Ore for some time, but nobody wants to listen.  They pretend that Obammy had everything to do with ammo shortages, rather than copper supply decline ( I shan’t get into the arguments again as I’ve beaten that dead horse flatter than a pancake ).  If you don’t want to believe we live on a finite planet, that ExxonMobile is the only reason oil isn’t gushing from the ground, I can’t stop you from investing in AR and Berretta arsenals with the corresponding tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition.  Because that is what you will need if you plan on firing three or four hundred rounds of ammo every enemy encounter ( almost every post-apocalypse fan boy fantasy novel, every crapping one a rip-off of ‘80’s pulp series, just with more Jesus Freak families involved for that more wholesome collapse, describes semi-auto’s just as their Yuppie Scum hero’s do- self animating objects capable of saving the least tactically talented from themselves.  Few bother with the logistics of re-supply.  Sure, “pallet deep” is a plan after all, if you happen to have the advertising dollars of companies selling FLIR scopes and freeze dried testicles.  For the rest of us on a budget, however… ).

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Now, it is very easy at this point to short circuit the argument and proclaim that nobody is going to survive too many contacts with the enemy and too much ammunition isn’t even needed.  On the face of it, this is true, but it also ignores the horrendous marksmenship of pretty much everybody.  The idiot brigade that styles themselves part of the Ninja Seal Team will of course blather on about “one shot, one kill”, but historical reality says that is blatant mythos bullspit.  Germans in WWII, who as a group both practiced for and practiced in combat aimed fire ( Americans might have trained as such but once on the battlefield were required to spray and pray-and they didn’t even get enough training to embed the marksmen ideal ), had their snipers, combat vets, at short urban ranges seeing a more realistic three shots minimum per casualty.  Unless you are fighting at the thirty yard Rhodesian Study Standard ( obviously there were prior studies, hence the 1940’s  Soviet adaptation of the 7.62x39, but the Brit colony study is what is referenced to “prove“ average conflict distances ), dumping your two hundred round combat load along with your team, in effect pushing a wall of lead at an enemy, your chances of hitting much are pretty low.

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Which means both that you need a lot of ammo and that you might last longer than you think after the Apocalypse ( at least gunshot wise.  Disease and et al is a different matter ).  You don’t need a lot of ammo because you have a semi ( please!  Don’t have a semi unless you use it at a distance in a mid range sniper role and take your time firing it.  The semi feature should not to used as a spraying device but a means to avoid manually rechambering a round and perhaps as a recoil buffering device for the older and/or prettier shooters ).  You need lots of ammo because you can’t hit dingus and you’ll be around awhile and need protection.  More tomorrow.

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18 comments:

  1. Don't get a fire arm as a self defense platform unless you have/can get the ammo to feed it. If the firearm is just a toy, that's fine, it is probably a more useful toy than the latest electronic doo-dad, and with better resale value.
    How many rounds you need cant be debated - you need enough ammo that you have some left over when you finally die.
    That exact number of course depends on your life expectancy and post collapse scenario you find yourself in.
    I live in a place where I can easily afford enough ammo for everyone in the county to receive 1-3 of the bullets (one way of another). Personally I think that is a good way to estimate how many bullets you will need - choose some shot to casualty ratio, and then figure out the number of people within walking distance of your personal alamo. Persons X Casualty ratio = # of bullets needed + fudge factor.
    Obviously the more populace a place has, the more fire fights you are apt to suffer through and thus the more ammo you are going to need.

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    1. I like your math. Which is why I know I'm double dog dicked post collapse unless most of the locals leave while there is still gasoline. Just too many folks here, even for a rural town.

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  2. Yes, I always refer to my semi's as self loading. Also picture each round as a shiny half dollar even if I only have .25 in them.

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    1. "only" of course still adds up real quickly. I added ammo over 17 years and it still hurt bad at 33 cents to seventy five cents each.

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    2. There was a time when my collection of 7.62x51 was Buck-Buck-Buck TwennyBucks a mag. TG, it has not gone to $5 per bang, but depreciated down to $10/mag. Now, I need to get a paying gig to refill the ammo boxes. This is the advantage of 5.56 at .29 each or .32 for green tip. -pdxr13

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    3. Except when thirty cents turns into sixty because you need to double tap that Skinny to bring him down.

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    4. Oh, yeah. We are importing Skinnies for the upcoming festivities.

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    5. Along with all others for a correct diversity.

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  3. Like everybody else I have my own views on ammo but like everybody else they are boring.

    Here some more original ideas, because Guns & Ammo is the butter & bread of survivalist blogs (to pretend otherwise is to pretend you used to buy Playboy to read the articles LOL)

    Original idea one : your caliber is a business card. if you use semi-auto ammo like 9x19, 40 S&W or .223/5,56x45 then people will think you have lots and lots of ammo because A. You were prepared (unlike 90% of the population with some income) and B. You chose wasteful weapon platforms, because those calibers exist almost only for semi-autos.

    (This attracts the wrong kind of attention)

    Original idea number two : You must choose a caliber that allows you to reuse both powder and bullets. This is actually a hidden-dumb idea, but yeah : you may find leftover ammunition with no gun to fire it. Option 1 : most ammo around is .30 and .30-30 is the most forgiving .30 ammo in terms of gunpowder - you don't have to shoot that fast a bullet (whereas .308 starts to get picky because it wants to go fat) Option 2 : you can paper patch odd-caliber bullets, for this you'll have to use either your .30-30 (antyhing below 7,62 within reason) or a .38 (most forgiving powder round in 9mm).

    Original idea number three : large rounds are too greedy in lead, and thus are impractical for logistic reasons, but small rounds like .224 are greedy in speed to make up for their tiny size, and speed uses up barrels, has rifling that suck for cast lead bullets and often needs special powders. So you need intermediate, forgiving cartridges, like .38 and .30-30

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    1. Excellent-not something I had really considered.

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    2. Agree with your thought on .22-.25 as too small/too-critical on powder & barrels. Cartridge like .220 Swift exemplifies the type. Don't agree on lead being expensive. .45 Colt and .45/70 are excellent 19th century cartridges. Both are candidates as "forever" arms, esp. with some stockpiling and modern bits (stainless, sturdy plastic stock). -pdxr13

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    3. Lead won't be as much expensive as hard to scrounge.

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  4. Not the main point of your article, but I think there is a lot to be said for making the distinction between living space and storage space. Off the grid, keeping climate controlled in living space is a major challenge, so you definitely want to keep it small. Having plenty of storage space that is not actively heated or cooled can be useful, however. Depending on your climate, you may even want to divide your living space into warm and cool areas.

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    1. No, good point. The grid won't be running so have your ammo well sealed.

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  5. Marksmanship folks. Col. Jeff Cooper (iirc) was the person who stated that if every soldier could kill 10 of the enemy, the war would be won (no military can take that mortality rate and win).

    Make every shot count - spray and pray will not cut it.

    Ave - some good thinking there Pard. The .32 caliber revolver used to be very popular in the 19th Century because of those thoughts. Not too much or too little - just right. Much the same thought for the .410 and FOOD FORAGING. Most game will be shot at when at rest, running shots be damned. The high amount of shot will ruin more meat when shot at standing / perched game. This is definitely a reloading situation with .410 - factory ammo cost is way over the top.

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    1. I bought a box of 410 for my "gun control homemade pipe gun". Could almost have bought a box of 30 cal brass ammo at that price. WTF?

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    2. James, you might want to make your own .410 cartrdiges : 7,62x54R steel ammo or some other large rimmed cartridge for the rim (broken .303 British maybe ? Russian 7,62 has some thick and weirdly shaped butt), and paper/cardboard for the shell itself, with some epoxy at the bottom.

      Th experiement would cost you very little and would benefit us all. I had such an idea in mind myself but nothing came of it, and now that's I'm somewhat crippled I will never resume. But I did some brainstorming on that, perhaps people elsewhere ont e internet have ventured into this.

      Tghe advantage of this solution is that you can use standard primers instead of shotgun ones.

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    3. Well, it sounds good but don't hold your breath. It took me like six months to finally stop in at the hardware store to get a piece of pipe ( Home Despot doesn't carry the size-I had to go to Ace ) and then longer for a box of shells. But it is something to put on my list of Ta Do's. I have blank 303's-those might be just the ticket for practice.

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