AMMO QUANTITY/QUALITY 2
I do not fall in any one camp with ammunition. I'm never Highest Quality, but I am usually middlin to Lowest Cost. It all depends on circumstances. Prior to 2008, you could buy the cheapest Wal-Mart rimfire for 1.7 cents each after sales tax, and it worked all day long, even in a $99 Wally special .22 rifle or a sixty year old no bluing out of time hardware store special revolver. Today, their four cent ammo has many tales of regular failures. I blame Remington, cashing in on the last of a once proud reputation, but I also blame anyone who deep stocks fifty thousand rounds without testing one of the boxes, after all the reports of Wally falling quality ( and, surely, your own experience in that ).
I never much gave any thought to my Enfield ammunition. It was almost all mil-spec from Commonwealth factories, or, eastern European new production with a decent reputation. All I was concerned about was getting enough cases to forever after reload my own ammunition. I've had bad luck with getting reloaded ammo from others, as the Quantity usually translated into poor Quality, but 9/10ths of my .38's are just such types. And I don't care. It is a gun I'm happy to have but will almost never use.
Because of the asswhore Gun Grabber communists, I reluctantly invested in the AR. I don't care for them, but they are about the cheapest and the best for spare parts. You might give no thought to that issue, but I did, after my Lee-Enfield went from a Bubba Gun to a collectors item and you cannot get parts anymore, not affordably. The AR's are JUST back-ups to my Enfield's. The 303 will rule the wastelands, not the flimsy AR's. Unless you got smart and made your AR a bolt action, AND have back-up's.
But I never considered reloading for the AR. I know you can and some folks do very cheaply, but that is NOT for me. The equipment investment would only make sense if you are spraying and praying semi-auto. You have to coat the bullets on the newer guns. The older ones can just be cast lead. Plenty of minions swear by steel case ammo. I'll do so, in newer guns. Older guns, with no spare parts, I won't take the chance. But if you are reloading, and can cast your bullets AND coat them, it is better to go brass case and reload. Cheaper, and better.
Another HUGE consideration is skill. I suck at shooting. It is not easy getting to a firing spot on a regular basis. I could, if I truly dedicated myself, but I have a feeling I would only get a marginal improvement at a very high cost. With funds I'd rather go to food. I just call myself a 100 yard shooter, and I'm okay with that. My eyesight is not great, and I won't invest enough to get decent scopes. One hundred yards is also usually sufficient in my terrain. This is not flatland desert, but rather rolling hills everywhere except river valley flatlands.
Why should I invest extra money in better ammunition, when I'm using these short ranges for shooting? I can't do head shots, it is torso hits or just blind luck. Even an AK at four inch MOA will do fine at a hundred yards. I believe the Tula ammo is about a 2 inch to 2.5 on a middlin AR. The gun shoots better than I do. The Enfield SHOULD in theory do the same, but used guns, especially combat guns, have too many variables. I don't expect much better than AK Accuracy on any of my shooting. Another good reason to stick to 100 yards.
Now, if you are a skilled shooter, then the equation changes. Better to have every round hit, rather than every two miss, at extended ranges. The thirty cent ammo is your 1 MOA, and will be worth more than your 16 cent steel case. Twice the price, but hitting THREE times as often, your brass case ammo is actually cheaper per hit. And that is PRIOR to reloading, if you even do. Since my marksmanship is barely qualifying, great ammo is wasted on me. So I go steel case on the AR. I got my seven thousand rounds stockpiled immediately, for about the same cost of three guns and an extra receiver ( plus tools ).
My biggest consideration was running out of time ( red flag in Nevada started January first, 2010, the twats ). Not quality but quantity. It works for me. My biggest mistake with my Enfield? Taking twenty plus years to get to the point I had more than enough ammunition. That was inexperience and a lack of education about the severity and proximity to the collapse. I won't make that mistake again, and I hope to keep you from following my poor example ( to be clear, I had enough to start, but not enough to match my later increased paranoia ).
I almost never have advice to give based on my positive example. I've made almost ALL the mistakes I caution against. Money down the crapper, and it would have killed me in different circumstances. Ammo is MORE important than guns. I'm glad I got my guns when I did, but they were so cheap then that I had no excuse not to follow up quicker with ammunition. To think, at one time I thought thirty cent battle rifle thirty cal was too expensive! Get mass quantities of food for yourself, and for your firearms, NOW.
Even if every one of you is on a budget, you can get BOTH quantity and quality of ammunition, now. Either go all in on steel case or go all in on reloading with quality brass. You can get those case prices down to near enough sub-twenty cents each round. If you are dirt poor, you trade in your semi's for bolt action. Then your minimum of quantity goes down. Reloading need only be as expensive as you desire. You can trade speed for cash savings. At today's prices, no one should be without ten thousands of rounds of ammo. You can even reload rimfire if needs be.
I can hear you now. But Jim, the amount of money you saved on hair care products allowed you to have the thousands of dollars in savings needed for all that ammo, new guns, and reloading supplies over the last year. Granted, I couldn't have done it without squirreling away money in my last working year at a “real” job ( yeah, real abuse, from real pricks, for not really very good pay ). But need I remind you, that was $10k GROSS, and THEN the prick Obammy took something like $600 for that no insurance fee. I netted something like $575 a month ( writing income went to reference books ). And THAT is what I saved up, after living expenses. If I can do you on so little, I'm confused why anyone else has issues.
And in months, not years. You NEED quantity. Your quality needs are dependent on your wages and skill. But nobody has to do without quantity, not at these prices, and not on this much shortened emergency time frame. Stock it deep people.
( .Y. )
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Correct Jim. Your break down of info on ammunition covers the bases. I would just add some strorage considerations to include with the info for minions. Putting the boxes of ammo in the floor of a closet and forgetting about it is insufficient. Storage "containers" or materials must be invested in as well. Leaving ammo in factory cardboard boxes or packaging is like leaving flour in a paper wrapper and expecting freshness and vermin free. The ammo, like guns and food are a priority category of goods that must be stored properly, -AND- securely locked down in a dispersed manner. I mention these items as a gun shop worker I noted many instances of a nice gun or batches of ammo that stored in poor environments and not cared for or measures taken has rendered grandpa's stash a sack of crap. Keep on oiling those guns frequently and seal up that ammo and food. Stay frosty.ReplyDelete
I'm just as guilty on the poor ammo storage. Trying to rectify now.Delete
I reloaded some .38 special with lead semi wadcutters back in the late 70's. Stored them in metal military ammo cans. Fired 35 years later and shot just fineDelete
Every once in awhile, the military really screws up and adopts a really good piece of equipment. Ammo cans are one of those. PS-damn, you're old! :)Delete
Jim , you'd best do some Target practice. To randomly go through all of any ammo left stored improperly. Once ammo absorbs moisture... it's tits up forever. Be a real shame to go into the apocalypse thinking ya got good ammo and discover moisture killed it. No sense securing potential bad dude...Delete
Yes, great idea. Thank you-sometimes the glaringly obvious is roundly ignored as I wool gather aimlessly.Delete
Poor boy method of storing ammo in the larger case boxes. Get rolls of that visqueen builders plastic sheathing. The higher mil thick versions are pretty tough, not permeable. I wrap the whole case up well (like gift wrapping style with limited seams) and g.i. duct tape it all up. Put a label on it with pertinent data on exterior. Rathole accordingly. Have ammo cans for the deployment needs or severe service rigours, seal wrap your other deep sleep larder inventory. Also disburse in two or three least compromise risk locations. Good to go sir.Delete
I think that stuff is six mils. The best garbage bag is only 2 mils.Delete
Lord Bison, say you can't get parts for the Enfields? Ho, ho, ho I know a guy...well actually I know Mo' in Kabul who has a cousin/ half brother over in Peshawar PAK whose father-in-law /half brother runs a shop in "gun alley". He and his team can hammer together a good as newly minted Enfield in a couple of days for you, complete with a Rawalapindi Royal 'Orbnance' factory forge stamp (yeah, they misspell Ordnance...mental acquity issues in the family, dontcha know. 75 IQ). DHS & UPS overnight delivery available.ReplyDelete
I'll stick with my proprietary magazine Ruger ranch rifle (in service since Moses floated down the river) so as to lessen my utility to the azzhat who gets a lucky shot in from behind me. But he'll make up for magazine compatability issue with the IMI ammo (greentip, yeah!) in gleaming new brass. Bonus point is my walnut stock Ruger makes a better caveman club than his plastic poodle shooters. Oh yeah, factory flip up iron sights, none of those red dot gizmos or AOCs.
Yeah, Lord Bison you and I will make fine jerky for our vanquishers unlike some who are just yellow stripe Armadillo burgers.
Speaking of buzzards...have I told you the story about the slow to fly off buzzard that met it's demise on the road between Mercury & Fife? Think shattered windshield, feathers and vulture vomit.
Simply too many reports on Ruger to not be leery, but that is just personal preference, not a criticism. I know I'm racist, but I prefer my spare parts to be manufactured by white boys in western countries. Better than being a dead non-racist.Delete
Those Peshawar guys have been cranking out parts and complete Enfields for decades...good enough to see Russians come and GO and USA troopers too.Delete
I hear they also turn out a better AK pattern than Ivan. Food for thought.
Any comment on Richmond lobby day/gun march?
I'm still processing Richmond. Aesop overreacting? Patriots blind jingoism justified? Nothing can change? Everything changed? A case made either way, so I need to mull more.Delete
Skip Richmond and all the political mush. Moot points now. Collapse and spicy times are coming, full steam ahead on preps and hunkering. Carry On.Delete
Skip Richmond, moot points now. Hi, I'm Jim, have you read my stuff? LOL If I'm not flogging dead horses...Delete
the Ruger ranch rifle is just plain awful. I think it shoots out the bullets sideways. Accuracy is worse than a pistol at 25 yards, honestly, I don't know how Ruger managed to turn out something that bad.Delete
Two comments today on the accuracy, or lack thereof of the Ruger. Yet others swear by them. High lemon rate? Seriously, I've never heard agreement with the brandDelete
It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.Delete
Unless its a Wal-Mart tool...:)Delete
Ammo stocking should follow from your overall plan. If your plan is to mimic the characters in Survivors by Rawles, stock lots of high quality ammo because your plan is to act like an occupying force in hostile territory. If your plan is escape and evade, and you know your not a master rifleman, your gun is mostly there to make people think chasing you down is not worth getting shot at. What you need is plenty of ammo to provide a deterrent, not 1 inch groups at 300 yards.ReplyDelete
Good point. I think we all forget sometimes not hitting anything is also a strategy, not just for spray and pray.Delete
How much is enough? Take the population of your county and buy two for everyone. That is me joking, sorta. Reality is most folks don't have much past a couple of boxes at any time. Even 1k gets you past the majority. 5k should be fairly adequate as long as you don't station yourself directly in front of the Golden Horde.ReplyDelete
I don't think you can have too much ammo, but it isn't something to get hung up on, I doubt any of us here could hold up under constant attack like Rambo and it would be healthy not to try.
I only get hung up on it because that is my gig. As long as you sleep good at night, you have enough.Delete
"How much is enough? Take the population of your county and buy two for everyone."Delete
Wrenchr2, that it the most pragmatic, common sense approach to figuring out your needs I've ever read. Seriously. Every swinging dingus ( as Bison would say) seems to throw out utterly random numbers with no reasoning/justification.
Alas, for me:
County population =1.78 million
x2 rds.each = 3.56 million ÷ 1,000 rds = 3,560 cases ×$350 per case ( yes, thats what a case of 5.56 will run you here ON SALE, before the 9.25% sales tax AND the "background check" fee for ammo!) Let's see, where was I...3,560 cases x $350 =$1,246,000! A little rich for my blood! Where do I find a county with only 5k population, thats a little more in my price range ;-)
Nevada is full of counties in that population range. Must like a dry cold, with wind a bonus, no trees and possible space alien excapees.Delete
The standard die-off for indigenous populations all across what was to become the US, the Pacific Islands, etc. was 90%. And a 90% dieoff across the board is what the planet needs. So each pukka survivalist has to think in terms of justifying their existence by taking out 9 others who are presumably less "useful". 9 others anyway.Delete
That's not a lot of ammo. Be sure to go after yuppies and mcmansions first, they have a much bigger ecological footprint.
Ah, but some survivalists won't bag their limit. Also, 90% die-off assumes a intact infrastructure in place to feed 10%. Centralized ag run on petrol won't do it. 99% die off if lucky, 99+ fractions if not.Delete
One of my supplements to ammo is a shit pot full of firecrackers for both booby traps and simulated mass gunfire.ReplyDelete
Good one spud. I will throw another curve ball. I have a couple 26.5 mm combloc flare guns. The red rain ones are my fave as they rain down red burning phosphorous at those low arching trajectory shots. Nasty. When WROL is the game, creativity is let out of the cage.Delete
Enjoy the Spicy.
You can do some neat things with a Shotgun shell , a nail and an Estes model rocket engine too...Delete
I have 20 years active duty Army serving in combat arms positions, and this is not for the Bison because his mine is made up. Logistics are for winners! Planning to fight at 100 yards or less with a bolt action rifle (especially a crappy home brew bolt action rifle) against a semiautomatic is the dumbest prepper idea I've ever read. The only fire fight that matters at the tactical level is the one you are in. The poorer shot you are the more lead you need to send down range. Worse than dying, is dying with ammo still in your gun. Logistics are for the living.ReplyDelete
Well, you should know I'm going to reply. How did the muzzleloader user survive against the swarms of arrows? How did those German's survive against our mighty M1's? Why aren't the goat herders more successful spraying and praying with their AK's? And last, if a survivalist acts like they are in the military, they won't survive long.Delete
Jim, before buying 1,000’s of rounds for your favorite gun, regardless of caliber, I recommend doing a real brand comparison test to find out what your gun “likes to eat” first. The link will take you to a test I did to find out what is the most accurate ammo brand my rimfire rifle enjoys the most. The posted results were shocking!ReplyDelete
I'll gladly check it out, but not having semi this is less of a concernDelete
I should clarify. Feeding is the biggest issue I hear with rimfire, and what I was referring to. Accuracy is less of a concern, for myself. Good article.Delete
Accuracy is always everything , no matter the weapon.Delete
One whom can't shoot for shit needs an automatic shot gun. Or lots of tribe with their single shot bolts, emphasis lots.
That is why automatics are called a force multiplier.
If you are trying for man size targets ( I know, most folks think "squirrel!", I think Forever Gun ), the rimfire accuracy spread by brand is not going to matter, to a certain degree. Far more important is if the thing has enough power to cycle a bolt, let alone get down range. I'll pay 50% more for rimfire that is quality feeding, and accept mediocre accuracy. Most of the time you have to accept sacrificing one to buy bulk affordably anyway.Delete