Saturday, November 10, 2018

battle rifle book 13


BATTLE RIFLE BOOK 13
The AR-10
It used to be okay to slightly hate on the AR-10.  Everywhere you cared to look there were field reports of jams, failures to feed, incompatible magazines and the like.  Here was the basic issue.  The AR-10 never had a military spec standard like the AR-15 did.  All your AR-10’s were manufacture specific and incompatible.  So, all those Olden Day reports reflected this.  Now, however, with the AR-15’s becoming more popular, as in Militia/Prepper Standard, the 10’s started gaining in popularity and better products were released.  There are still SOME issues, but nothing like before.
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You have, in general, two standards for the AR10.  They are the Armalite and the DPMS ( also known as the LR/SR-25 pattern rifle ).  If you buy magazines for one, it won’t work in the other.  As far as other parts go, I couldn’t comment on what differs.  Although the DPMS seems to share a lot of parts with mil-spec AR-15’s.  My recommendation would be to buy the brand name rifle from the company that supplies them with all the parts.  I’ve heard almost all great things about Palmetto State Armory.  Mid grade quality is good enough for me.
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Now, before you think this incompatibility issues disqualifies the rifle, be aware that minion reports state that the cheaper AR15’s share this issue.  As in, buy THAT companies spare parts, or none at all, as they are not always compatible.  So, really, I’m not seeing a huge issue here.  Any other gun you buy, you can usually count on not having generic parts, unless they are one of a handful of highly popular standards like the 1911 or the 10/22.  If you want complete parts compatibility in the AR15, it has to be all mil-spec, and that is pricier.
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Thus, it seems to me your biggest reliability issue is in the magazines ( all firearms in semi-auto have quirks with certain types of ammunition, so I’d hazard that the AR10 won’t be different in this regard ).  If you are not using an Armalite brand/type in a DPMS/SR-25 rifle, or visa versa, that SHOULD, in theory, do away with the old issues of jamming and failing to feed.  Obviously, test any brand of magazine before you stock up.  The good news is, they are far more affordable than they used to be.  What mag isn’t compared to 1995?
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From what I’ve read of reviews, the D&H brand magazine is the best mix of affordability and reliability ( the D&H Tactical SR-25 ).  At $25 each they are only $5 more than Magpul, and are NOT relying on a polymer feed lip.  A feature well worth an extra $5.  Why do you think you need to buy 100 magazines, that this price difference is so outrageous?  You are using a 308 round.  You can easily stay well out of range of an AK-47, and most AR-15’s ( practical shooters range ).  Why are you fighting close quarters?
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You always want more magazines than you think you’ll ever need, but you certainly are not field carrying twenty of the suckers like the ninja gay boy AR-15 users are ( fun filled fact on AR15 mags.  The guys at that famous machinegun rental place in Las Vegas say aluminum GI mags hold up so much better than any polymer types ).  308 rifles are supposed to be for marksmen, not urban warfare submachinegunners.  You need lots of 308 mags, but only logistically, not tactically.  Me personally, I would be maxed out at carrying five mags, and that would be overkill. 
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Now, hopefully that takes care of the old AR-10 guns reliability legend.  Obviously, don’t carry a gun you don’t feel comfortable with.  Most people think the Mauser is the bees-knees, but to me the added accuracy wasn’t worth their propensity to be harder to cycle the bolt, especially after getting dirty.  This really is a non-issue, because I should be having distance between me and my target.  It was just a personal fear/issue.  If the AR10 scares you from the old stories, don’t rely on it.  It is a confidence killer, and you need every combat advantage.
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But if you feel they have advanced enough in reliability, they have some advantages.  Like, price.  They can be as little as one third the price of a FN-FAL or M14, if you assemble one from a kit.  They will feel just like an AR-15, ergonomically ( other than having a larger magazine.  With a muzzle brake they will even get close in recoil ), and since a lot of us were in the military this is a really nice feature.  I can’t say how accurate they are, but then, AR-15’s vary a lot in that regard also.
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With a longer barrel, free floating and an upgraded trigger, plus obviously the ammo selection, you’ll get the lusted after sub-MOA.  Although you can throw money at the AR15 to do the same.  And it does seem from reports that an AR15 is easier and cheaper to get better accuracy on than the AR10.  But this is a combat arm, not a sniping rifle, so just temper your expectations.  I would think that an AR is going to be inherently MORE accurate than your other rifle designs, but obviously your manufacture must do his part or all bets are off.
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Personally, I don’t think an AR10 is all that great compared to an AR15.  It has a superior round, but no other attributes that the AR15 has that make it the standard.  But here is the thing.  There is ONLY a $100 difference between the two ( same manufacture, both from kits ).  For a mere $100, you get to go from a carbine round to a full thirty round.  No other Full Thirty comes close to that affordability.  It wouldn’t matter how cheap it is if it were total crap.  Look at the Spanish CTME compared to other G3’s.
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( hint: they were pretty awful, with misaligned iron sites ).  I don’t think they have the issues they used to, but, again, go with your gut.  Trust it.  Then verify by shooting the sucker.  If you are still getting mag and feeding problems, drop the AR10 as a contender.  I can’t speak from personal experience, only what I’m researching from users.  But we all know about confirmation bias.  I know a LOT of M14 buyers are going to minimize their problems and maximize the guns attributes, because few people will admit they had a major attack of dumb ass-ness at a cost of $1700.
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I would, personally, see the AR10 as a POTENTIALLY great choice, but I’d also say that you are talking about a $500 gamble.  If you cannot afford to wager that much, don’t do it.  Stick with the AR15.  That has a track record.  The AR10 is an improved product from old, but perhaps isn’t improved enough.  If you MUST have a 308, I think the potential is worth the risk, but it isn’t my money you are risking.  So, your mileage may vary.
( .Y. )
( today's related link here )
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note: got Amazon Prime?  Great new movie additions.  The Omega Man, Soylent Green and Deliverance.  For the Libertarian minded, all three parts of Atlas Shrugged.  Of marginal relevance but a great movie, The Man Who Would Be King.
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note: free book.  PA here .  
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20 comments:

  1. Jim, just to contribute some thoughts. For Minions whom are now equiped with weapons (s, plurally, should be) and related kit, and want to go thirty route then plan well. Be cautious of a manufacturer specific design and support train, you will be beholden to that, forever. Some manufacturers (arrogant and highbrow from gov't business) are the only source (contingent upon non collapse, business still functions) and rape you on cost for parts, and delivery delays. I always steer towards battle rifles prolific enough and in use by enough countries to ensure it is a success. The thirty battle rifle club is a different breed of cat. You must be prepared, monied, to invest much more in gun, mags, ammo, etc. Eight of ten minions would honestly be best served staying with intermediate calibers and kit and shop for multiple units of same-same for commonality. Think of going from functional suv or half ton trucks, to much more capability of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with bigger gas or diesel engines, and all those costs and servicing. Frugal prepping this is not. It would be nice and dreamy to be a rifle range baller with a thirty caliber swagger stick, but...???

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    1. Good points. Full thirty does seem to be excessive in most aspects.

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    2. Test everything HARD immediately after purchase, find out if it will hold up. And I'm not just talking about gun stuff. EVERYTHING. Manufacturing, and quality control specifically, is in the shitter. Buy at your own risk, don't test if you're a dumb ass.

      Next. I put my AR10 project on permanent hold. Maybe I should say cancel. Now that I'm an old dood and I think a lot. Some say too much. Bahhh. I have Rem 700's in .308, so how is an AR10 going to benefit me considering I already have an excellent AR15? Very little.

      For a true sniper gun you need to be able to reach way out there, all the time, without fail. You don't need to put all 30 in a fist size hole as fast as you can. So I see no advantage to using a tricked out 10 for sniper purposes.

      An AR10 would be better suited as a patrol gun, for ranges out to 300 yds max. But so is an AR15, and it is lighter and easier to shoot. I already have the 15 so how is a 10 going to benefit me? For the money I'd be better suited in having a 2nd AR15. Back up, spare parts, for my wife, all the usual reasons. And if I need to reach out and touch someone 1000 yds out, or hit a propane tank, my Remington model 700's have proven more than capable.

      I have some parts that I purchased toward the AR10 build but nothing 10 specific, stocks, fold-up sights, floating front grip, pistol grip, all of which can be used on a 15.

      So when are you going to build your own AR15 Jim?
      Use that parts list I posted awhile back and you'll end up with a dam good gun. But you'll hafta dip into that silver stash. HA!

      Currently just over 7k rds of 5.56 all the same brand and 84 Magpul mags, all tested hard, and enough parts to build another one plus some extra stuff, packed in a hard shell Plano case with a decessant cannister. I do NOT have a back up lower as I'm still weighing the possibility of doing an 80% lower. If I do it won't happen til spring when it warms up around here. We got some snow over night. Can't believe it's winter already. They keep coming faster each year. I swear summer is only a week or so long any more.

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    3. You know I love full thirties, but no, I've never seen the need for them to be semi's. And I'm leaning towards carbine rounds for my Enfield's.

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  2. “Obviously, test any brand of magazine before you stock up.”


    Good advice. I only own 2 semi’s, my 9mm Ruger handgun, and my 10/22. Some years back, when most of the stuff that you bought was still of decent quality, I purchased 2 magazines for the 10/22; a 30 and a 50 round magazine. Neither were reliable, and would stop feeding before you got to the end of the capacity. I know that it wasn’t the gun, because it has never done this with the standard 10 round clips, and the 10/22 itself has never jammed. But my 10/22 was manufactured when Christ was still a corporal, so I can’t speak for its modern counterpart.

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    1. I can't imagine the Rugars actually got better.

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    2. Take the springs out of those larger mags and stretch them a little bit.

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  3. re:
    Our two Armalite AR-10 rifles

    These are about 1995 factory-built. Mine is an AR-10T sixteen-inch, the other is twenty-inch.

    At the range next to the penitentiary at Ione California, each holds one-hole groups to three-hundred yards. The sixteen inch consistently gives two-inch groups at the limit of the range == 600-yards.

    A ragged one-hole group for me is a twenty-round box of BlackHills Match over the course of pre-dawn to post-sunset. Magazine writers boasting about a three-shot or five-shot group from a bench or sandbag are fooling somebody.

    Magazines == over the decades, we acquired a foot-locker of M-14 magazines, then converted them with the Armalite kit. I estimate we own probably close to a couple hundred twenty-round mags ready-to-go.

    Weight wasn't a factor a couple decades ago. Today and forever, I prefer AR-15 clone pistol lower with ARAK side-charge uppers. Loaded is 7# compared to about 12# for my sixteen-inch AR-10.

    To achieve their accuracy requires meticulous barrel break-in, and I admit few informal shooters would be willing to invest.

    To instruct shooters, I tell the story of the young Marine learning from Carlos Hathcock. According to the legend, SGT Hackcock met the kid at the range daily for months, at any time day or night, irregardless of weather or physical condition or rest or hangover. One cold shot, log the results, go home. One cold shot.

    Glass == The 20 likes a fixed 9-power, the 16 is permanently married to a 4x14. Don't ask the cost; the value is beyond money.

    My results are during a crawl to unknown distance. Whack-a-mole.

    Do I enjoy shooting? No. But it has to be done. My heritage, my commitment to my tribe, requires it.

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    1. "Don't ask the cost; the value is beyond money."
      See, this is where I have my big issue. Better value for saving your life, such as relocation and food storage, are rarely given the same weight as the arsenal. Not saying this applies to you, personally. But it does seem to be the norm. Guns are just as necessary as shelter, energy or food, but are better funded. Grrr!

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    2. Yes, Jim is correct in the disassociation of costs. Culturally many survivalists have become just a gun slut. This instead of an upright walking hunter, gatherer, shelter builder, tribe member, whom is reliable in as important areas as well. Flush out the helmets and think BIG PICTURE.

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    3. The Barska on my AR15 is a 1-6Xx32, cost a little over $300 and does as well as I need. One of my Rem 700's has a 50X Leupold that cost more than a grand and that was with a 60% off discount by my neighbor. That Leup is custom mounted on that 700 and won't work on the AR15 without messing it up and new mounts for the AR would cost another $300, so it will stay on the 700.

      The mount on the AR is quick detachable and the last few times I have taken it to the range the scope stayed home. Same with the bipod which is quick detach too. It's so much nicer carrying a 7 lb gun than the heavier version with all the bells.

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  4. Someone mentioned the sling in the comments here just recently. I just happened to coincidentally come across the short video below. It looks to be rather effective, considering how low tech it is (Albeit, a bitch to aim). There’s your “battle rifle” of the future, right there. Semi aficionados will be among the first to master it :D

    How to use a shepherd's sling (4:28)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkwNg_qBd8

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    1. Yeah, I figured you would get a kick out of that :D

      The biggest drawback that I see is that whirling that thing around would probably scare all the game off for miles around, so you would probably want to stick with traps/snares for actual game procurement. But against a man, all things being equal (i.e. as long as you don’t bring a sling to a gunfight :D ) it would probably be pretty devastating. It’s also probably a good idea to further investigate such primitive weaponry as this. The Atlatl is probably another good choice. Obviously, primitive bows and arrows would beat all, but I can’t for the life of me imagine weaving a bowstring strong enough from natural materials, to with stand the stresses of firing a bow (Yes, of course I get that it’s been done by many, for thousands of years, but Tonto I am not, kimosabe :D ).

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    2. Every time I think about mastering something like a sling, it makes me want to go order another 5k of rimfire :)

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  5. Just save up for a Q- the fix

    It's an aspirational rifle for a blue collar worker ...... apparently

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  6. Jim, refer you to Bio Prepper website with an article on storing lard (canning) etc. Seem like an o.k. web page if you're not already hip to it. I tripped on it from all news pipeline. Just info noodles for fellow minions as well.

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    1. Thanks for the reference, but usually these kinds of sites are filler and ad bait. I usually ignore. Not to say there isn't something there, just that it takes a long time down the rabbit hole to find.

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  7. Have DPMs ar-10. one jam in the first 300 rounds on a new gun. after a good break in should be better. I fixed the jam in 15 sec. and kept shooting. I am happy with mine.

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