$337 AR part 3*
note: an e-mail I was allowed to share. Would I take it seriously? Yes. Nothing is guaranteed, you need to "gut check" these things. "Hey Jim, I hope you enjoyed your 'vacation'. I know you preach BUY WHEAT all the time but it looks like the grain market could be coming out of its multi-year Bear market. Added to that, oil prices appear to be headed to the $100 plus price range. As you have commented before EVERYTHING about farming today is tied to Oil. I will not go into the technical s but I'm thinking we can see $7 wheat as early as this winter. We may be missing the last good chance to get cheap wheat." END. note on the note: that price is the commodity, NOT retail one.
note: free books-plague https://amzn.to/2IVQv3C , this one looks cool, a zombie apoc after the Irish potato famine in 1858 https://amzn.to/2LfKkp1 , an alien invasion https://amzn.to/2IxRjbr , I seem to recall it being more militia porn than PA, but a decent read https://amzn.to/2s01fEr
note: free books-plague https://amzn.to/2IVQv3C , this one looks cool, a zombie apoc after the Irish potato famine in 1858 https://amzn.to/2LfKkp1 , an alien invasion https://amzn.to/2IxRjbr , I seem to recall it being more militia porn than PA, but a decent read https://amzn.to/2s01fEr
If you meander on over to www.ceratac.com, you will find really cheap AR kits ( all but the lower receiver ). I found them to be $60-$130 cheaper than the Palmetto State Armory kits. Now, granted, in the AR world just a little bit more money often times grants far higher quality. The temptation to upgrade is ever present. But we are certainly NOT talking about Better, Better Still or Best AR’s, we are talking about extreme poor boy AR’s. Try to pay attention here, m’kay? The cheapest PSA kit is $330. The cheapest from Ceratac is $270.
And THAT difference is a lower receiver. Which, if you bought from most, will run you $50 minimum. Add $30 for the FFL paperwork and, what?, at least another $20 for the dealer. Let’s say you bought like a half dozen and got them dealer plus $10 each with the one time FFL fee and you are still looking at $65 each. For $69 you can get a blemished 80% receiver WITH the drill guides and drill bits. An unregistered legal rifle. Which, let’s face it, might be a very good thing to have ( in Nevada, we no longer are able to private sale guns and must use a dealer for the transaction ). Your only other choice is to buy a pre-twentieth century antique gun which mostly blow chunks and won’t save you any money.
The company you want for the 80%’er is www.polymer80.com Yes, a polymer lower receiver. Not exactly a confidence inspiring material. I’d rather have aluminum myself. And yet, there is your $337 AR-15. Granted, there might be shipping, but that applies to all but retail anyway. You are avoiding sales tax and the federal background check, so I don’t think claiming this at $337 is really cheating compared to pricing other guns ( it is a bit, since to get the $65 registered receiver figure I put shipping into that total. And, yes, if they are out at present of the blemished receiver your $337 gun goes up to $347 with a regular priced kit. Still, work with me here ).
Now, keep in mind what we are looking at here. More than one AR, if at all possible, as a bonus. But if not, the cheapest AR possible. Unregistered is almost a requirement, not really JUST a bonus. I recently talked about the company that was offering 80% aluminum receiver kits, which was six to eight weeks back ordered as soon as the idiocy in the Florida school occurred ( No false flag there, move along folks ). And they were not cheap. The drilling kit was something like $120 to $160 for higher quality metal, plus the cost of the blank. A competitor company offering basically the same thing was asking $200 for the guide plates, plus receiver cost.
Now, that $200 “tax” was awful steep for an unregistered gun. You could buy the AR molds and pours, but that was $350 for five pours. You could then keep the molds and buy more plastic with the steel stiffening inserts a lot cheaper, but you didn’t want to mess with that unless you wanted far more than a single receiver. Both the aluminum drill kits AND the pours presumed you were investing in multiple rifles ( don’t even get me started on the $2k Ghost Gun machine ). With the aluminum, you had an added $75 drill press cost if you didn’t already own one. An added incentive to amortize that cost by investing in multiple guns.
The polymer receiver also requires a drill press, and really, if you want to reduce the chance of screwing up the thing, you’ll also need a x-y vise which adds another fifty percent on to the drill press cost. So, pouring your own is an initial investment of $350. Aluminum costs all in $275. And a polymer cost $185 total. IF you don’t already have the added equipment needed. Could you borrow them?
Again, I hear you saying to yourself that you’d rather invest an additional $100 to go from polymer to aluminum. I would prefer that also. And then I’d prefer to invest in another $65 for a gas tube regulator ( to turn off to safely block the gas to convert to a bolt action, preferable to afro engineering a block which isn’t as safe or sure-we are talking really high pressure here ). But preference and budget don’t always meet, right? Don’t get me started on that again. The plain fact is that with borrowed equipment your total cost for a lower receiver can be as low as $67 if you stay with polymer.
Some videos caution against polymer, pointing out the really thin section right in front of the buffer tube. The guy said that section cracked on him and he had to go to Napa to find a bottle of plastic weld to jerry rig it back and hence didn’t trust them. Other videos claim those were first generation and the second gens are much beefier there now. Only you can decide who to believe and what your budget is. I find both sides hard to believe, because on one hand Gear Heads find reasons to distrust anything other than high priced items, and yet poor boys have a long history of hyping up frugal rifles unjustifiable, such as with the Chink SKS and the Mosin-Nagant.
But the price-oy, the price. Less than a cheap bolt action hunting rifle. Half the cost of a quality bolt. And NO registration! Hard to pass that up, no? Granted, with steel case ammo and the cheapest possible parts, this pig won’t get much better than 2 inch groups. And with the polymer it might or might not be robust enough. But, again, super cheap gun here. In semi, for all you unrepentant minions. Now, I wouldn’t want to short range spray and pray here. Both the crap ammo and the crap receiver probably would greet that tactic with disaster. At a low rate of fire at a distance, this rifle SHOULD be adequate enough. It is far from perfect. It is also $337. No, this should not be your go to SHTF rifle. It shouldn’t be your first choice. But it can be a BTN gun.
END ( today's related link https://amzn.to/2G91IIg )
* By the by, all my writing is copyrighted. For the obtuse out there
Articles like these are always interesting because you have to balance several factors into an optimum.ReplyDelete
I still think you can go lower than that price if you decide to make the lower yourself (and limit yourself to the barrel, bolt group and upper receiver), but then you substitute money with time and effort. Also, the metal and the spring you'd use don't necessarily come for free (although I have accumulated lots of discarded metal bits for such DYI mechanical projects, not necessarily firearms though).
Poor people don't have time and peace of mind to pour into such DYI projects. To that have time and peace of mind is already a sign of wealth in itself. A poor person would be best served to follow your proposition here and substitue good money (over 100 USD) with a little time and effort (about one afternoon worth of it).
The downside of getting out of the cities (low money, low employment etc.) has a silver lining in that you can venture in these project and climb the steep learning curve.
I'm far from mechanically inclined, and would have no clue on gun mechanics. If you were just deplicating the lower it would seem the tolerances are too tight. But again, what do I know?Delete
You know too much already :)Delete
Just for sports I ran a little calculation here (BCA stands for Bear Creek, PSA for Palmetto)
BCA AR-15 Rear Charging Stripped M4 Flat Top Upper Receiver : 49.90
BCA .223 / 5.56 NATO / .300 Blackout Bolt Carrier Group: 77.84
BCA AR-15 Barrel, 14.5" 4150 Parkerized M4 Contour Barrel, .300 Blackout, Pistol Length Gas System w/ 1:7 Twist : 47.08
PSA AR15 Hammer Spring 1.99
PSA AR15 Rifle Action Spring 2.99
Subtotal : 179.80
One would probably have to add 20 bucks for such things as the barrel nut (I don't own an AR-15 myself, hence the hesitation), but yeah for 200 dollars (and delivery costs) you would have the basics for a rifle, you would have to do the rest yourself though (hammer, trigger, wood stock etc.). It would not look like an AR15 but it would still have sound ballistics.
These kind of projects would be espeically interesting for families, when one experienced memeber builds several of these things in a small batch; Savings multiply.
I chose the .300 Blackout barrel because while .300 BLK is nothing but an glorified .30M1 Carbine round I still believe it is a better cartridge than the 5,56 for survivalist purposes. Let the flame wars begin.
The Ares SCR is a good example of the kind f lower receiver I'm thinking about : https://modernfirearms.net/en/civilian-rifles/u-s-a-civilian-rifles/ares-scr-eng/Delete
Here's the diagram of the system : https://modernfirearms.net/userfiles/images/civil/us/scr/1422814802.jpg
Sorry, dude, it still looks all Greek to me :)Delete
Now you got the tinkerer going in me. Polymer may seem weak, but Glock seems to use it to great success. I have worked with aluminum enough where it seems to me the wear rate would be a wash, so working strength is what concerns me.ReplyDelete
Since problem areas have already been identified, seems natural to me to beef those areas up during the intial build.
As for the cost of the tools, I have been wanting a drill press for years and while I know people who have the equipment, opsec may be the perfect reason for me to buy one of my own.
That will have to wait a minute though, I am getting ready to roof my BTN home with a fabric/cement mixture like you have mentioned before
I've only seen that fabric/cement method mentioned once. I'm very interested to know if it works well for everybody or if it was a one-off. Please report once done.Delete
Pretty decent test of steel v brass wear on guns.
I think the main point was the chemicals in the powder/primer. The barrel was shot out at 5k rounds. I think the jams were due more to the rapid fire, but yes, some steel case is better than others. No accuracy comparisons were done.Delete
Yes, choose .300 blackout, a specialty round with an admittedly growing popularity, but still much less adoption than .223/5.56.ReplyDelete
Or get both barrels (or rifles) and reform your once used brass for the .300BLK for reloading.
It is marginally better for supressed shooting in subsonic, but inferior for most other applications to 5.56.
If you aren't suppressed, then .300BLK is only better than a 7.62x39 if you want to maintain a Stoner platform rifle.
I think the 300B is used in this instance as a low volume shooter, so that might not apply. But normally, right, why dingus up the low cost/available round?Delete
Years ago I attempted to build a 80% aluminum lower with my Harbor Freight drill press. I don't necessarily feel the need for an off books gun, it was mainly just an "arts and crafts" project to see if I could do it. The drill press had worked fine for other miscellaneous projects, so why not for this one? Well I completely screwed it up. Apparently the tolerances in the drill press impart a wobble into the bit (no the bits weren't bent) and I ruined the lower. No matter what I tried, I couldn't stabilize it enough to cut the material straight and smooth. So now you understand why their drill press is so inexpensive. I gave up and got a registered lower from an FFL instead.ReplyDelete
I've had trouble in the past from wolf steel case .223. The trouble was, I was getting 1-1/2" groups with Winchester 55 grain fmj at 100 yards. I bought a case of wolf because it was so inexpensive. My 1-1/2" groups expanded to 6-8" groups. I have no idea if the current manufactured stuff is of higher quality but I don't buy steel case anymore.
A comment on yesterdays article. When a brass case is fired, it expands to match the chamber, then drops back down in size, but not as far as the original dimensions. When the steel case is fired, it expands to match the chamber, but doesn't reduce back down in size as much as the brass does. Hence, the problem with stress on the extractors in American guns which were designed for brass.
I'm leery on the lower myself, just because I really can't afford to piss away $70 at a time, and I am a bit of a clutz. I rarely hear good things about steel case and accuracy.Delete
The balancing act standing on wet rocks here is time/effort involved in manufacturing finished parts in less than scientific/journeyman conditions instead of just assembling finished sourced parts divided by an acceptable quality standard carried to the left margin is the end product's actual level of performance and durability. Which all must be considered when discussing warfare and killing which is like really important subject matter, not just tinkering in a shed to prove that it could be done, well kinda, maybe. Decide accordingly minions, this will all be on your final exam.ReplyDelete
Does this really apply to the AR platform? Like they all say, it's just a Lego set.Delete
The only way I'd take on an 80% lower project (and it has crossed my mind) is if I already had a REAL lower to use as a visual guide for reference. A couple decent digital micrometers and calipers would be very helpful. I have a drill press with an XYZ vice from an old milling machine on it. (x and y will let you go left and right but the z will let you go up and down)ReplyDelete
There are no chamber pressures involved with the lower so even if you mess it up it won't kill you.
Frankly, I think the ATF stepped on it by requiring the lower to have the serial number as it's the upper that has the greatest importance. But I ain't complaining.
One more thing and I'll step off. Don't underestimate the importance of the junction between the upper and the barrel. This is where the rubber meets the road and it's a joint that requires the proper torque. My barrel came from Black Rain and cost about $300 and I'm getting another real soon. Getting another upper from Black Rain too.
Let's hope the ATF stays busy mulling the Bump Fire or whatever those silly things are called.Delete
Kinda like our reloading topics. Don't over invest into a narrow realm of topics at the expense of others. our resources are many fold. Money as one of course, but time and physical effort is a very under appreciated commodity that decreases in availabilty constantly. Brain work and heavy thinking/planning can rob that resource away from other necessary topics or tasks. We are specialized creatures in areas, so use that guild member's skill set to full build or mostly build components to husband your resources for other things like fixing that broken toilet paper roll bracket in the bathroom instead of the roll just sitting on the tank like trailer folk.ReplyDelete
Informative trilogy. For me the biggest advantage here is the lack of paper trail, as I’ve never had any desire to own an AR (I’ve never been particularly fond of semi’s). But if I were starting off fresh, this seems like a good, cost effective way to go.ReplyDelete
I’m of the mind at the moment to suggest that the best non-semi choice for survival rifles, is the lever action rifle, ideally chambered in .357 or .44 magnum. This enables the survivalist to have a matching revolver that uses the same ammo. Both of these common rounds are offered in the Lee Loader. A .22 rifle and a 12ga shotgun would complete the arsenal, and you would then have all that you will ever need with this combination (unless you need distance).
The lever action is also quite light, when compared to the battle rifle. Though is it just me, or have they gone up considerably in price? I only looked briefly, but I was seeing prices upwards of $1k?
I haven't done serious research but it does seem the prices are getting way jacked.Delete
Rossi 357/44 Mag are $535 at Walmart.Delete
Henry is $700
Uberti & Winchester 92 in 357 Mag are $1300.
Don't get a SA revolver from anyone! Screws are falling out of all makes when fired. Ruger SA are a mess now to.
Get a 30-30 rifle instead. Prices are cheap and they work. Even the Remlins are pretty good now.
Seems that nobody focuses on the main advantage a semi has over every other type of gun. No, it's not the spray n pray notion that is oh so attractive to little gurlz. It's the fact that you can keep your eye on the target continuously.Delete
With bolts, pumps, and levers, you have to start all over in the target acquisition department with every trigger pull. Factor in an adjustable gas block and you'll reduce recoil to near nothing. Then you can just lay there and ping eyeballs out to 300-600 yards all day long.
I likes my levers, pumps, and bolts, and they have their places, but when it comes to self defense only a fool would go with something other than a semi.
And, if built right (which requires proper research and education), and a little more money, the "dirty gun" thing is a non-issue.
Keeping your eye on multiple targets continuously is great. For military applications. They also have the extra ammo for that. Your primary tactic should be ambush. You'll note that the Afghanis with the Lee-Enfield did rather well against the Soviet army. They didn't fight them head on. I'm suggesting that single shots were not a handicap for centuries, also. How did the trappers survive with a muzzleloader against a foe with rapid fire?Delete
EC-that may or may not be a good price for some, but compared to better rifles they suck.Delete
"....multiple targets continuously is great. For military applications."Delete
Last fall at 9:30 at night there were 3 criminals in the woods behind my house, about 150 away from me. I stood there in the dark with my loaded AR in hand watching their flashlights traverse from south to north. As they exited my property to the north I saw 3 more flashlights enter my property from the south, they were cops in pursuit. The criminals were not caught. Around these parts it gets pretty dark when the sun goes down and the cops are a long way away. It's only prudent to be prepared to defend yourself from criminals no matter how many there are.
The idea of standing there in the dark with a 70 year old single shot battle rifle makes my skin crawl.
This was the second time this sort of thing happened in a 3 month period last summer-fall. I'm planning on it happening again.
Because the distance was great, 150 feet or so, and it was dark and there were multiple criminals as well as cops on the scene I did not choose a shotgun because of it's indescriminate "spray" pattern which in today's highly litigious society could bring problems back onto my self. I believed blowing individual heads off was the best way to go rather than taking out groups of people with a single trigger pull. Always consider the mission.
Fifty yards sucks, dude! I don't REALLY blame you, on the semi. I would still feel comfortable with a 70 year old magazine fed bolt action, but that is what I'm comfortable with. I think competence in any weapon will deliver that cozy feeling. I'd also feel better with a back-up revolver, of course.Delete
I wonder whether the idea of being shot at by a rifle (they don't know it's single-shot) at a distance in the night makes their skin crawl or not. It should.Delete
A shotgun would have been perfect for that situation, but I’d want more than a single shot. As far as litigation is concerned, the shotgun is still safer in this scenario. That why in many states back east with higher population densities, shotguns are the only legal gun for deer hunting. They don’t want people whizzing bullets all over the woods, that are filled with other deer hunters.Delete
It seems to me that gs is not as remote as those of us in the west consider as remote, if such a situation plays out in his neighborhood, and he expects it to once again. I’m not disrespecting him (I’m not the dude that posts here that has it in for him) and if a semi is what makes him feel safe, then that’s all that matters.
Remember, target acquisition is everything. At that very moment I didn't know WHO was in our woods, only that some WAS there. It's not customary here to do that. It was only later that I learned the first set of lights were criminals, followed by LEO. If things had made a left turn I could have killed a cop, or if I had a shotgun, multiple cops. We all know how wonderful that looks in the headlines. Can you say, "Ruined life?".Delete
In hindsite maybe I would have done things differently as far as what to arm myself with. In close quarters I prefer a shotgun. But then maybe a semi pistol is better, who knows?
Little tidbit to consider:
If you are aiming a gun AND a flashlight at a perp at night what do you think he's going to shoot at?
If you have your shotgun trained on the perp and you're empty but he doesn't know it you can load a shell from your side saddle, over the top and directly into the chamber. Then, once you're in battery you can load more in the magazine from below with your subordinate hand.
Once you venture into the world of defensive/offensive training you realize how broad the topic is and not limited by that which Hollywood likes to portray. When your own life is actually in question a new reality enters the picture.
No training means no idea of reality, training is still different but far closer. Only experience matters in the end. We are all in a no-reality situation. Those few trained have increased their odds marginally. Which is another BTN.Delete
>> Once you venture into the world of defensive/offensive training you realize how broad the topic is and not limited by that which Hollywood likes to portray. When your own life is actually in question a new reality enters the picture.Delete
Ghostsniper, just to be perfectly clear about a couple of things. On the internet everybody pretends to be something, it is unfortunately not an argument.
You can say I have no clue about what I'm writing about ("Hollywood") and that you have superior knowledge. That doesn't make it true, but it does make you sound like an idiot.
Don't think that I haven't read hundreds texts like yours over the years, they are profoundly sterile and repetitive (and often quite dumb).
Now back to the topic, you didn't understand what I was saying. I didn't say you should have fired a shot (how stupid would that be, by any standard ?), I meant that the other side would be just as scared of the situation as you in case of a firefight.
Now you're just making stuff up and attributing it to me. I don't have to put up with it and I won't be replying to your posts until such time that you straighten it up. There's one in every crowd. sheesh 11:30pm, Monday.Delete
Two-part reply (can be made into a separate article if you wish so, Oh Keratin King Lord Bison)ReplyDelete
What are the characteristics of a frugal survivalist rifle ?
1- low weapon acquisition cost
2- low ammunition acquisition cost
3- low legal difficulty to acquire
4- effectiveness against non-military enemies below 200 yards with use of light cover (US house walls, cars)
5- useable (shooting, transporting, basic maintenance) by untrained people
6- useable (shooting, transporting, basic maintenance) by people of feeble constitution
7- ruggedness or easily replaceable parts
Bonus : 8- forgiveness about expediently reloaded ammunition (only relevant for the post-collapse environment, but it's something you have to bear in mind if you'e going to have only one type of weapon)
Emphasis on procurement : mililtary surplus rifles used to be great on point 1 but are not anymore, and often felt short on point 2, especially exotic weapons like French or Swiss rifles used uncommon brass. They fail on point 5, they are typically too powerful for your average family member.
Emphasis on function : bolt-action rifles using intermediate cartridges like 7,62x39 are ideal but cost 600 dollars and more, failing on point 1. The same goes for lever-action rifles using .30-30 or pistol rounds, which are also lackluster on point 6.
Single-shot rifles are ideal in all aspects is lacking in function (aspect 4) if there are too many enemies or they are trained in some way.
A good way to get killed is to give a gun to an untrained and/or feeble person.Delete
My wife for example. She has never fired a gun, though she has held my AR and showed some interest. I don't push this stuff on her. I don't want to get shot. heh
She has fired a Daisy BB gun a few times.
There is only one instance currently in which I would let my wife fire a real gun and that is if I was incapacitated enough that I was incapable of defending us. I'm very versatile with a wide variety of shooting circumstances so I don't see that happening unless I am dam near dead and at that point what do I have to lose?
Handing a loaded firearm to an inexperienced person is about the quickest way to lose the battle.
FWIW, the army teaches hundreds of complete nitwits how to field strip an M16 in less than 10 seconds and clean it properly in less than 5 minutes. It's not rocket surgery. It's so easy that it can be done in a foxhole and the cleaning kit is in the buttstock. Yeah, I've been there.
Since you've been in the service, you know most of them are complete nitwits even AFTER training. They can strip and clean their jammed junk quick, and then forget how to pour piss out of a boot. Sure, a lot is lack of motivation. Either drafted or forced by economics to join the army, the life blows except for ass kissing incompitants, but you also pretty much figure the rest of the civilians are probably as stupid. Look at the industrial accidents at the factory, and the "high tech" companies that cannot literally Do This ONE Thing.Delete
Ghostsniper, you do what you want, but when you're finally giving in to exhaustion after 48 hours of watching houses burn in the distance, standing out of the permanently blackouted city (cue dramatic music), wouldn't you like your wife, on watch duty, to be able to shoot more than a Daisy BB gun ?Delete
@Ave, you can frame a scenario in favor of arming an experienced person, but in the case of my wife I have known her for 35 years now and I just don't believe she is capable of the responsibility I require of anyone around me with a gun. Reality has to take precedence in matters of extreme importance.Delete
The scenario you described above is not possible here so there is no point in considering it. Without getting too detailed about the things my limited tribe currently have set up, any criminal activity no matter the source will be dealt with severely and quickly without adding the complications of my inexperienced wife adding to the complexities. It's best for her to be in the background manning the communications. I have discussed this stuff at length with her for decades and there is no way in hell (her words) she would ever shoot another person. Her overpowering mindset is she is fearful she would shoot an innocent person. I cannot break through her mental barrier. My neighbor has suggested she get training from people better equipped to explain this stuff to her but she refuses that training. I do wish that I could depend on her for firearm support in time of need but I don't want to get killed by friendly fire and I don't want to kill her.
Believe me, this thing bothers me every dam day and I see no solution as long as she is unwilling to try.
Second part of the reply : arguments in favor of an AR rifle in a frugal perspectiveReplyDelete
With the list mentionned above in mind, there is actually a possibility for an AR platform to be useful, because as Jim rightly said (again !) the AR-15 is the “de facto” rifle in the USA and thus standard parts have been accumulating for decades in the country.
Point 1 : rather good.
You can buy parts for cheap (see my example above) but you can also buy leftover parts from a lot of people. Even if it involves triangular stocks from the 70's. Some parts can be homemade if so inclined.
Point 2 : very good
.223 brass can be found for free in large quantities everywhere, it is also very cheap to reload.
In my perspective, I favour the .300 Blackout, which can be made from this same brass :
Good/Bad brass list converting 5.56->300blk : http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=88599
Point 3 : not so good. As Jim's article here emphasizes, there is some difficulty here.
Point 4 : acceptable for the .223, good for the .300 Blackout
300 Blackout Vs. .223 Penetration Test 100 yards : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5PDQvuybDU
Point 5 : modest
You will have to plug the gas port on the barrel and dispense with gas tubes etc : a survivalist rifle on AR basis has to be used as a straight-pull bolt rifle. This blog has been over it a number of times.
An AR rifle is not easy to clean for the novice. As always thereis an issue with magazines that is not present with most bolt-action rifles.
Point 6 : very good
Such a platform is light for the feeble shooter and its light recoil is very acceptable.
Point 7: modest
If you build the platform yourself you can accumulate parts, including those you made yourself, but there are a number of small parts and of course there are magazines.
Point 8 (bonus) : very bad for .223 because it has high-velocity jacketed bullets. (you'd have to stockpile bullets in advance, which again is quite possible due to their current low price per bullet)
Somewhat acceptable for .300 Blackout, although the barrel low twist rate is not good for slow cast bullets
Yep, it really irks me that the AR has surpassed most others doing a costs/benefits analysis. The gods curse me.Delete