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Tuesday, June 28, 2016

three tier arsenal 2 of 2


THREE TIER ARSENAL 2

I thought I’d pretty much covered everything there was to cover insofar as guns.  How brain chemistry-which you cannot control-secreted from stress-yo! People are shooting at you and you might die-is going to promote the Spray And Pray tactics of semi auto and you will waste most of your ammunition.  How suppressive fire is a military tactic you cannot duplicate due to logistics.  How without an industrial infrastructure you cannot produce ammunition.  All of which is pretty darn hard to argue with.  Only with training can you overcome lack of fire control and most of us can’t afford to both stockpile ammo AND train with it to the required degree.  And it would take sheds full of pallets of ammunition to get you very far at all into the Apocalypse using current military weapons and tactics.  Which, again, folks with WAY more money than me can’t afford.  It isn’t just poor people that are financially constrained.  The “solution” to that is to slowly but surely stockpile, and to do that Peak Oil has been postponed indefinitely ( along with population pressure and resource decline and empire collapse ).

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And the way folks argue with it, also, is to call for the Three Tier Arsenal.  Acknowledging the logistics, they call for a limited role for semi’s, just for the die-off phase.  But, why?  Why do you need all that ammunition and firepower?  If you are part of a group, slower fire isn’t a problem.  You use volley fire to duplicate smaller numbers having semi’s.  Just as was done with bows and just as was done with black powder muskets.  If you are not part of a group, can’t you hide well enough to avoid most conflict?  How is a semi even necessary, if you aren’t holed up in suburbia waiting for a hundred zombies at a time to attack you?  How would Biker Hordes even know where you were?  Because you were in a large luxurious home with wood smoke bellowing to keep the temperature in Old People Comfort zones, power tools screaming as your fat asses couldn’t manually construct anything?  WHY do you think you need the first tier, is my primary question.  People far less educated than ourselves have followed the primary objective of following the tactics a weapon required, rather than follow today’s tendency to pick their favorite tactic and loudly insisting on acquiring the weapons for it. 

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WHY, it must be answered, do you feel it is a great idea to put yourself in harms way when it is your life on the line?  George Washington, first Ginormous Asswhore Of The New Republic ( which was a coup d etat by the rich elite, trashing a confederacy for a more powerful federal government, several generation prior to the War Of Northern Aggression ), had no problem insisting his volunteers serve out more than their agreed terms, against their will ( “stop loss” without the legal justification ), without pay as their families went hungry, AND had to fight in ranks in the open with muskets.  He hated the backwoodsmen who used rifles and fought Indian style, attempting in every way to thwart them.  Now, are you going to sit there and try to tell me that these rednecks were at a disadvantage with Three Times Longer To Reload, more accurate rifles?  Of course not.  Because they didn’t expose themselves at short ranges as a matter of course.  Which is what you want to do with semi-auto carbines?  How can advocates of semi’s even have served in the military?  Either they were officers, content to send their men to their deaths, REMF’s ( Real Echelon Mother Freakers ) who haven’t a clue or civilians with a clenched sphincter and taunt nipples over anything military, without a clue.  Any who were the sharp tip of the spear and still think semi’s are a good idea is brainwashed ( or addicted to adrenalin )-all well and good for that individual but NOT for those willing to listen to them ( and, no, Francis, lighten up, I’m not trying to diss any who fought-they have my mad respect ). 

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Respecting one’s fortitude and bravery does not automatically follow with unquestioning acceptance.  The military does things for a reason, and keeping the individual alive is NOT on its agenda.  Blindly following military protocol is retarded.  Blindly following anyone is moronic.  Think for yourself, no matter how much it hurts.  My position, which could be wrong for you, is that you don’t need semi’s if you avoid conflict intelligently, bolt actions provide all you need ( including a bayonet! ) and with minimal outlay and planning should last you far into the future-which should alleviate any third tier.  I have my Tier Three as a rimfire arsenal rather than archery or black powder, yet wonder if I’ll ever even use it.  Hell, I’m nervous enough about my chances of survival using Tier Two weapons, if only because each conflict exponentially reduces your odds of survival.  Again, it isn’t about gold or guns.  It is about food, more food and then slightly more food after that.  Just enough weapons to keep that food, and more ammo than you think you’ll ever need.  Stop trying to play GI Joe with all these firearms. 

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20 comments:

  1. Avoiding a battle isn't cowardice . It is a survival instinct. All rifles semi bolt or lever are for defense only. Offensive weapon's are machine guns mortar's RPG and most civilians don't have the tools for offensive battle. To seek out conflict with defensive weapons is fantasy.

    If a person hides and lives he has won by not dying. Now I am not saying do nothing but like you said a frontier sniper is has been despised by every military for hundreds of years. I consider 300 yards close confrontation.

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    1. Well, semi's are actually offensive weapons to an extent. So, you are armed for the offense with semi's. Not that your odds are too good of surviving. Yes, the military does rely on VERY expensive and VERY heavy weapons for offense, and semis can be used in defense waiting for those to be delivered, but at times you are also going to be expected to go on the offensive with JUST those semi's. That, and the use of live bodies as "trip flares" for the heavy weapons, are where your grunt takes it in the ass.

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    2. We aren't going to be stupid when it comes to actual "fighting". We are going to be economical with our tribesmen's lives and generous with the enemy's and their equipment by using explosives defensively and in ambushes, and using our semi-automatic rifles to slow our pursuers as we advance rearward. If the explosives are effective, there might be remains that include MG's/mortars among the debris. If the enemy is injured and withdraws, there may be a negotiated peace at less cost to both sides. We have only to look at the lessons of Pashtun fighters in Afghanistan and add some better intelligence and equipment to improve survivability of the forward teams.

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    3. And look at the Paki side of the border-still making a living selling to the fighters after all these decades.

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  2. Try to design your fighting position so that you're shooting out of the corner of an "L". That way, no more than 4-6" of your body will be exposed either vertically or horizontally. Also try to get at least two facing each anticipated direction you need to defend yourself from. If you don't have the bodies to fill at least two positions facing the direction you're being attacked from, you're in deep doo-doo.
    Peace out

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  3. I'm trying to figure out how a semi is a bad deal?
    It can be fired slow, like a bolt, but also has the advantage of delivery 2 shot per second if necessary. The only downside I can see is the price spike for a semi but can be negated by careful shopping. My current AR was purchased 2 weeks ago for $400 and it's not my dream machine but it will do what I described above. $400 is only a little more than I paid for my 870 shotgun 10 years ago, and $200 less than I paid for my Beretta 92F 20 years ago. I have a couple $100+ guns and I even have a $2000 gun but in my honest and experienced opinion my 4 pronged approach: Beretta 92F 9mm, Remington 870 12 ga, AR15 .223, Remington 700 .308, is about as good as it gets and not including ammo cost me about $2000. Collapse or not, I still would have purchased these same guns. Now I'm concentrating on all things ammo.

    This doesn't mean I am not acquiring the other things you have mentioned including massive amounts of storeable grub.

    So whats the big deal about semi's?

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    1. The big deal is lack of fire control caused by stress. With a semi, you spray and pray under stress ( "I'm going to die-screw ammo conservation! Fire! Fire! Fire!" ). With a bolt, under stress, your mind thinks differently ( "I get one shot and one shot only, then I'll take forever to reload, so I've got to make this shot count" ). You are making the gun control the stress rather than the stress control the gun. This is what I'm betting my own life on, but of course I could be full of crap, as always.

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    2. You are right James (Bet you never thought you would see those words from me...) I hunt with single-shot handguns and I always take the time to make it count. Most of my guns are bolt action, revolvers or single shot. My favorite handguns have 9.5, 10, 14 and 15 inch barrels. I've always (from buying my first gun "a 10-inch barrel") been a target shooter more then a plinker that burns up ammo just to hear a boom.

      When at the range with my bolt action 22 I maybe shoot 50 rounds while there. But when I take the Ruger 10-22 I burn up 250 rounds just because I have 25 or 30 round clips.

      But I noticed years ago that it was more fun to take just the bolt action with me as I had more fun with it then the 10-22.

      PS: I always have a center fire large caliber (usually a Colt 45 or 357 Mag) handgun on me when at the range even if I don't plan on shooting it. The range rules say you must leave your gun on the platform when walking down range to set targets. But the problem is the shooting platform is right by the road (only 10 feet away) and the range in in the country. I could easily see someone grabbing guns while a shooter was 200-yards down range and driving off while I am setting targets. So I have the handgun to be able to discourage this if needed. A few bullets fired off in their direction would do a lot to stop stupid people.


      Chuck Findlay.

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    3. Only training will allow you to control that stress. If you believe your gun is going to control your stress you need to rethink that.

      You're in a prone position in the bush overlooking a clearing as 20 men with semis approach and you see them coming from about 100 yds out. If you do nothing they will find you in 3 mins and gut you like a fish, and you know it.

      As soon as you pull the trigger they will spread apart quickly and drop to the ground, and also advance toward you.

      This is the exact time you do NOT want to be slowed down by anything that is NOT semi. You need to deliver massive amounts of accurate lead down range NOW. The ones you do not kill will retreat fearing for their lives as heads explode around them.

      Controlling your stress is NOT a job to be relegated to others including your guns.

      Practice. Think it through, then do it, over and over.

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    4. Properly trained and motivated troops will advance towards you under fire. All others hunker down and allow you to escape. Just hit one and likely they will stay with their comrade. Then escape in the confusion. Unless you are on the offensive in their territory in which case things are a bit more desperate for them.

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    5. Chuck, " A few bullets fired off in their direction would do a lot to stop stupid people."
      Wise words to live by-too bad polite society frowns on such.

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    6. Get a different shooting spot, or go with a helper. A reasonable range REQUIRES you to sling and carry your weapon to change targets (everyone together). Folks can carry a rifle 200M and back, right?

      pdxr13

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    7. Rear Echelon M-f'ers, like supply and maintenance. Hoo-rah--go order parts & fix stuff! In the rear, with the gear. USAF 722MXS- Give 'em hell, Captain! It's only 3800 miles to the target.

      pdxr13

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    8. The Long Tail is vitally important of course, but with the current "worship the military or you are a terrorist" mindset, too many from the military are listened to, with or without cause.

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  4. Oh great high haired one. I agree with your assessment if we're talking about $600+ AR's and $.50 ammo. However, I happen to have a cheap Hi-point 9mm carbine that cost under $250. I know you're feelings on the 9mm round but, from a rifle it still packs a enough of a punch at 100 yards to ruin a zombies day. Add in that 9mm ammo can be gotten for under $.20 a round and you can easily pick up a gun and 1000 rounds for $500. At that price spray and pray for tier one is affordable. Of course, there are draw backs but, I thought it was a pretty frugal investment. I await your lashing response.

    -Novice

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    1. Actually, other than the obvious drawback of being in close range, you are not far off in an ideal arsenal semi wise. If you must go semi. As you say, $500 is not a bad investment if that is your thing. I'd focus on it as my Forever Gun ( we talked about the 9 rather than the 22 ), but that is just me. Since most Tommy Tacticals are going to also be within a 100 yards, even with a 250 yard gun, your system holds a lot of advantages, at least logistically. I'd think about a minimum of another 5k rounds though.

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  5. “Only with training can you overcome lack of fire control and most of us can’t afford to both stockpile ammo AND train with it to the required degree.”

    I think that even with training James, most people outside of those that have actually encountered combat will not be able say with certainty how they will react in such a situation? I recall a quote from the movie “In pursuit of honor” with Don Johnson. When Johnson's character was asked for advice by a younger recruit just prior to going into combat, his reply was (I'm paraphrasing here) “Anything that you need to know about combat you will learn in the first 5 minutes”. That sort of stuck with me for some reason?

    That being said, for an inexperienced person that panics easy enough (Which is probably most of us) I could see how throwing a lot of bullets at a problem could be advantageous if caught in a bad situation. Just don't test your luck by making a habit of it.

    I won't even bother to pretend to be a keyboard commando, and don't carry with me any excess pride. I'm a chicken shit and would fill my trousers at the first bullet that wizzed past my head. I'll be hiding out in the wilderness, and hoping for the best?

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    1. Without fire control, and with a semi, you waste ammo. Simple as that. There is no advantage in semi if nothing is aimed. You think you can afford the military's record of thousands of fired rounds per hit? That is what unaimed semi's do. Your analysis is spot on throughout except your "could be advantageous in a bad situation". Your tactics, your carry load, all work against you with semis.

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    2. I read somewhere the army expended 7,000 rds of ammo per every Iraqi soldier killed.

      Army gun training for the masses of recruits is bare minimum at best, foolhardy at worst - high rates of infratricide.

      My old unit in Germany, 1st Platoon, Delta Company, 54th Engr Bat was wiped out by Bradleys in 1991 Iraq from infratricide.

      Paid for civilian training is far better but only if followed with constant self training-practice.

      I'm lucky, my neighbor has a shooting range on his acreage, the guy that sold me the $400 AR recently. We shoot at least every other weekend, usually more.

      When I lived in suburbia I rarely fired guns. It's better out here, in just about every way.

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    3. In Vietnam it was something like 50k rounds per casualty and that was with inflated body counts so likely more.
      "What kind of training did you get here, soldier?"
      "ARMY training, Sir!"

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