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Friday, January 15, 2016

devil take the hindmost 2 of 2

Note: Survival Acres guy has a medical fundraiser going on:
I gave a nominal amount of $10.  If everyone did...This guy is one of the few realists out there in the DoomerSphere.  I'm being selfish donating to keep him blogging.
Abandoning the less fit to the devil, or the four horsemen or the grizzly bear that is after you and your buddy, is of course considered somewhat rude.  In normal times it is.  In times of social unraveling it is a survival trait.  And not just some Darwinian personal survival, some Might Is Right Nazi ethnic cleansing, it is a species survival trait.  In normal times, you jump into the river to save a drowning baby even if your life is at risk ( the fact that this doesn’t always happen anymore, or other such social principle abandonment’s do such as a whole apartment complex ignoring the cries of a rape victim, should clue you in that we are already in a mild collapse and things aren’t getting better, ever.  Not until the soil rebuilds itself over a few centuries ).  In times of collapse and anarchy, more than likely you would throw rocks at the kid ( yes you would, if feeding that kid was going to take food out of your families mouths ).  Just as with the code of conduct towards people ( your tribe is family and is all, strangers are scum suckling anal spelunkers and must die ), there is a way to treat others.  In surplus resource times, you extend warm and fuzzy thoughts and glittery unicorn farts.  In times of scarcity, hump ‘em.  One of you is going to die so it might as well be them.


Now, I know this sucks.  I don’t look forward to it just in case I’m the screw-ey instead of the screw-er.  But if you cannot get your mind wrapped around this concept NOW, before you need to act on it, you will die.  And with you being dead, your spouse and children stand a very poor change of escaping the devil.  So it doesn’t matter how bad you feel about having to make the hard choices that will cause you nightmares later.  Avoiding that decision is like pouring a vial of poison into your kids grape Kool-Aid.  You might as well kill them now because what you are choosing is to let them suffer mightily first before they die.  Nice parenting, douche.  All those pussies who wanted to die in a nuclear explosion to avoid the later suffering were in effect making the choice to kill their family to avoid discomfort.  And I’m the bad guy for saying “screw everyone else after I take care of me and mine?”.  Now, to be clear, I’m not advocating jumping on a Harley and raiding and rapine-ing.   If it comes to that, no problem ( of course, by then, it will be on horses ).  I can live with that.  It just isn’t the first response to the collapse but something you are forced into for survival ( I look on raids as taxes farmers pay to nomads to keep them raising extra meat [ that which doesn’t compete with farm land for soil for fodder ] for trade and for being a free border patrol ). 


To put this simply, so that you won’t be forced to sit through another days additional article on the same subject, you need to learn to give way less of a crap about other people.  When resources contract, lots of people die.  If you abandon others to their fate, you might make it yourself.  If you try to help others, you are condemning your family to death.  I don’t give two craps what the churches politically motivated Holy Book says about charity.  If you sacrifice your family for strangers, no deity in his right mind would reward you.  Let the devil do his work.


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  1. Given your premise, the question is how big is your tribe? Who is included? Too big and then not enough resources. Too small and you lose strength and skill needed to get by.

    1. Who is included isn't as important as, are there resources for their skills? A doctor without medicine, a chemist without chemicals, a super ninja warrior without ammunition, all pretty worthless.

    2. A doctor (CORPSMAN!) without medicine is still better than some urban-raised grass-eater who only knows to call 9-1-1 on a phone blinking "No Service" when they see an arterial bleed spurting. A chemist without chemicals can still build fire for carbon, distill water/alcohol (we are approaching medical supplies with these 2), and identify possible sources of other things. Super ninja warriors will be invisible sneak assassins with cordage or blades. Ammo is what the rest of us need instead of personal skill.

      What doesn't work is the backpack almost-refugee "lone wolf" without a team to fall back on. Looking like a refugee lone-wolf is fine when you are actually a forward patrol, but it would be better to be an undetected ninja forward patroller. Rational OpFor would capture/kill all of these and quiz/search for final disposition.


  2. As James said about SurvivalAcres, if everybody ...

    About the topic, of course it is sometimes necessary to leave some behind, but it should be an exception, and it has to be on the clearest occasion.

    Too many justify their psychopathic behaviour with this "survival" excuse when it was all about screwing them or looting them in the first place.

    As a matter of fact, the surest way to identify the next who will be left behind for the wolves is the person who starts justifying this behaviour so as to set a precedent.

    Humans are the same, on a micro scale as well as on a macro scale. What we did to our colonies we can also do to our family.

    1. Totally agree Aves. Those who look for reasons to move to leave others behind are often the next on the chopping block. The second group on the chopping block are those who refuse to leave behind even when it costs the tribe more than reasonable (the cost obviously depends on the situation).
      Those who try to find ways not to leave members of the tribe behind but are reluctant, but willing, to agree when all other reasonable choices are gone are the ones most likely to be supported by the tribe.

    2. The situation we will be looking at, immediately, is zero resources to form a tribe. If you can't feed them, they can't support you. What most folks envision is sharing inadequate resources so that a bigger group dies quicker than a smaller one. I'll never claim a tribe isn't superior to an individual. I'm claiming the inability of the tribe to survive the die-off.

    3. Resources required -
      Security, Air, Water, Food, Shelter/Heat, Medical Care, Validation/entertainment/socialization, etc. as per the Hierarchy of Needs. Kings kept their thrones through meeting the first of the list first, and using their power in that area to make certain sufficient of the rest was provided to their populace. For now you can get guns, air filters, water filters and storage, food storage and seeds, etc. for relatively cheap. Enough to provide a family a decade or two of scraping by with barely sufficient if husbanded.

  3. I guess I look at this through an entirely different lens. While what you say makes perfect sense it goes against my interpretation of scripture.

    "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." -Galations 6:10

    I decided long ago that I would be using all of my preps to help those of my family and church first and the surrounding community second. I can't tell you that doing so will somehow cause more resources to appear (it won't) but I can tell you that I've learned a lot in my years of service to the Lord and I trust his promise.

    "The LORD will not suffer the soul of the righteous to famish: but he casteth away the substance of the wicked."
    Proverbs 10:3


    1. Circles of support.
      Care for your child first, spouse second, self third (assuming you aren't a narcissistic a-hole), then your extended family, clan, tribe, town, nation, etc., until the whole of mankind...
      The scripture you are quoting says the same thing with the 'especially unto them who are of the household of faith' aka your church is your extended family/tribe...

  4. Good topic, Jim. It's one that I find myself mulling over quite frequently.

    My overall default personality is "lone wolf“ but as a convert to the LDS Church and studying its Pioneer past, one can see the benefits of a Tribe.

    I like to think about it as a type of insurance. Yeah, you may not have quite as many resources for you individually but the fact that there is a group that has your back more than makes up for it.

    The secret is to wisely pick your tribe and to make sure they will be there when you need them. A tribe that has ties through family -or- God-centered belief -or- life and death bonds (such as military buddies) are the strongest in my opinion.

    Storing extra basic food items such as wheat, rice, beans, oatmeal, etc. for your tribe is pretty cheap compared to trying to go it alone.

    Idaho Homesteader

    1. Next week I do "survival math" article. I might not have written it coherently enough but my hope is to illustrate how food stores won't be sufficient for a group.

    2. Make sure you define "group". Technically, you and the new old lady are a group. And I would go out on a limb to say that no matter the math and calories, that two can survive better than one.

      Survival entails more than food and calories.

      On our homestead, there are many jobs. Some jobs are hard and some are easy but still need to be done. All of the cogs contribute to making the machine run smoothly and efficiently.

      Having an extra set (or two, or three) of hands, frees people up to focus on the jobs they do best. And by making sure that the jobs get done, more food can be produced. Some jobs require two or more people.

      After starting a homestead from scratch over twenty years ago, I can tell you that trying to live a self sufficient life on your own is almost impossible. I've seen numerous neighbors try and fail. Some don't need people very often but always there is something that comes up that requires help.

      Here is a reason that if you look through history that the vast majority of people form into tribes.

      Tribes survive better than lone wolves.

      So a good series of articles would be how to maximize the benefits of a tribe even though the math of calories doesn't work out.

      Idaho Homesteader

    3. “My overall default personality is "lone wolf“ but as a convert to the LDS Church and studying its Pioneer past, one can see the benefits of a Tribe.”

      As a former LDS, and having some knowledge of the early history of the church. I can testify that those LDS pioneers were a force to be reckoned with, and a group who's side would be in your best interest to be on. Those early pioneers were a hardy group of people that forged westward due to persecution to create their own successful paradise in what would be considered to be a hell hole to most. The Mormon Militia actually withstood the federal troops when the U.S. military entered the salt lake valley. Bunch of bad asses they were!

      Their modern ancestors, not as much so. (No disrespect intended towards IH here). As with everyone else, political correctness has reared its ugly head even within such a fundamentalist establishment as this one. It seems that the only groups that are void of this nonsense anymore are those that live completely outside of the mainstream pop culture such as the Amish. And as time goes on, you even see many of their youth being corrupted to the “dark side” since they live in such close proximity to the “English”. I do not say this from a Christian view point, since I am no longer one at all, but as someone that can see just how polluted mainstream western secular society has become.

    4. My tribe is going to be the old lady and her daughters immediate family. I can feed those for a not-long-enough period. Anyone else otherwise welcome must have their own food. I can only afford an extended family, not a tribe. Math sucks.
      Mainstream society is so polluted as to be a cultural wasteland. Just the effects of us turning on each other as resources decline ( expect worse ). The scramble for the shrinking pieces of pie is ugly and embarrassing.

    5. Defining tribe vs Family vs extended family vs clan is where the difference of opinion is going to lie. My little town has a population of less than 2000 but even that is too many for me to prep for in even just one area (say Water) under financial restrictions of a middle class income. My extended family (spouse is an orphan and my mothers side is gone with mothers passing so just my fathers side) includeds grandmother, her 4 kids (including my father) and each of their 1-3 kids, for a Then the oldest of their kids are having kids of their own and spouses (oddly most of grandmothers kids have divorced) for a total count of nearly 30 people I would have to prep for if I included them all. Fortunately I doubt that even half of them would think of me in a collapse as we are not generally close, and we are so scattered across the globe that the numbers reasonably coming to me for help would probably be less than 4.
      Still that would be 7 mouths I would want to be able to care for, for several years. That is a lot of preps, even just the basics...

    6. Be careful James. It's rare for the offspring of another to bond with the new spouse in such a manner as to instill any sort of loyalty or trustworthiness. You don't want to wind up like the male protagonist in that story that you posted a while back that took in all those females, and in the end they murdered him. You already got shafted by the former step daughter. Not trying to be a wise ass, just saying that you shouldn't be so trusting of others. I would not let on (I'm going to assume that none of them read your blog?) as to the inventory level of your supplies.

      To do a group situation right, it almost has to be done in a way that all parties come into it with equitable supplies, so that one person isn't footing the bill for all the others so to speak. I hate most people, so a group will never work for me. Yes, I know that barring a Sylvan Hart/Jeremiah Johnson like existence, I will not survive for long. But 50 years of hard line indoctrination (neo-cons are just as worthless as liberals) I find practically all Americans to be insufferable morons.

    7. Logistics is such an easy concept, yet universally ignored. Glad to see you understand it even at such an elementary level ( most refuse to see it ).

    8. 903- oh, I hear you. I have few illusions. In my case, no, they have no idea of the extent. Plus, I'm the only other male which makes my contribution to defense worth more than my share of the food. In theory, anyway. Of course, reality is where theory hits the road.

  5. I Smell Your BullshitJanuary 15, 2016 at 1:16 PM

    Sorry, but gotta call 'bullshit' on the plead for health care money for (I won't even say it). By his own admission, he has been 100% 'disabled' and getting a free check for more than 30 years. If he really needs this procedure, not only will he get it, but he will not pay one penny out of his own pocket. A True Fact. Wake up people.

    I learned all about this kind of scam years ago when my 8 year old needed emergency surgery for a ruptured appendix. 40 fucking grand (at the Mayo Clinic) I had to pay only because I was employed. I learned later that if I was a 'disabled' person then it would have been covered by John Q Taxpayer.

    Fuck the freeloaders. You can't live forever anyways. *spit**.

    1. I agree, having put up with the homeless scam. I will say, he claims he was never on any welfare but self employed. Remember when Orlov fund-raised for a new boat motor? This guy isn't asking for much more. You are supporting the writer, not the cause.

  6. OK, I reread his 'plea' and he claims to not be on the dole. I will take him at his word. Still, hard to believe he can't get this paid for when others are getting sex reassignment surgery for free.

    I will say 'my bad' and offer my apologies though. Sorry to be a sceptic.

    1. Nothing to apologize for-way too many scams and haters out there. Paranoia is good!

  7. John's seriously underestimating the medical costs.

    This morning at 7:30am a fleet of 20+ medical personnel descended upon me in full force at a major midwest medical facility to deal with an issue that is NOT cancerous and by 4pm today I was resting mostly peacefully in my own home.

    I was put all the way under with an anesthesia continuous cocktail (yes, I asked for and wrote down the ingredients) and then 3 surgeons did what was necessary to get the goal accomplished. I had been waiting on this for almost 5 years and the cost was $14,900. Again, this was NOT cancer of any sort but rather an injury I did to myself in 2011.

    Cancer is the most expensive medical *process* there is, even more so than organ transplants.

    Because of the gov't/insurance mafia the medical institutions in the US are now at the worst state they have ever been and you won't hear detail about this until you are waist deep in it and then it's too late.

    There is no way you can look at this communist organization in detail and not understand completely that it's primary goal is to provide a place for huge volumes of people to become miserable, broke, and dead, while other people become insanely wealthy.

    Now pardon me while I go pop another pair of 325mg Hydrocordones and zone out from this reality nightmare for a spell.

    1. Enjoy your drugs. You probably deserve them.

    2. As you are an *older* dood and not getting any younger I'll give you some detail and possibly a headsup cause what happened to me happens more frequently than I had known but doods don't talk about it a lot. It happens more as you get old.

      Each of your guts is in a fluid lined bag and all of them are in another fluid lined bag. The fluid lined bags act as lubricants that allow your guts to *flow* around each other easily as you go about your active day twisting, turning, bending, etc. If not for this lubrication system you would be miserable. The bags are called peritoneal sacs and the fluid is peritoneal fluid and it is through out your entire body.

      At the bottom of your abdomen are 2 openings called inguinal canals and they provide for the descending of your testicles when you are an infant. After they descend these 2 holes close up somewhat but not entirely as there is still a cord (vas defrens) going through there.

      If you do an activity that puts a lot of pressure on your abdomin it is like squeezing a fluid filled zip lock bag. That fluid must go some where (hydraulics) so it finds the weakest point and in my case if was one of those inguinal canals.

      I had been drilling holes in very dense clay with my 10" bit on the Earth Auger and got caught in an underground root. I yanked up hard and blew my lower back out so I literally crawled to the couch in the worst pain I had ever known and stayed there for 3 days straight and 2 more weeks of recovery. No doctors. Advil was my friend. Unbeknownst to me a more nefarious injury was lurking below the surface and made it's presence known a couple months later when I discovered a small lump in my scrotum during a shower. I was terrified. This was the summer of 2011 and the Lance Armstrong testicular cancer thing was everywhere and my favorite hunting dog was going through bladder cancer. I was fit to be tied. I waited, and watched, and read everything. The lump, the size of a pea, was on the side of my left nut rope and it was growing. Spring of 2012 I sought a doctor and found a urology specialist. To my horror I found he knew less than I. I have no insurance and he couldn't give me a total cost on the fix. I called everywhere to find out how much it would cost to get this dealt with and NOBODY in the entire midwest could tell me. They didn't even know what I was talking about.


    3. Part 2:

      See, now, it's all about *insurance* and costs don't matter to anyone any more. As long as you are paying your club dues of $200 to $2000 per month it doesn't matter the total cost for anything.

      But what about us that aren't in the club and are now too old to join because the costs are on the moon?

      They won't tell you that.
      They'll just say "I don't know.", or silence.
      But that's the reality.

      Back to my thing.
      That lump continued to grow, and grow, and grow til it got to be the size of a large grapefruit.
      Very difficult to deal with on all levels and some you can't imagine. Going up and down ladders now was a no-go. Steps were similar. All of my britches stuck out to here and I stayed home most of the time, not that there's anything wrong with that. Sitting, walking, virtually all aspects of my life were deeply effected. Sex? Yeah, riiiiight. Don't even think about it. My d**K was now the size of a 2 year olds thanks to being enveloped in this *thing*.

      During the operation which took about and hour or so and I was completely knocked out, they cut into the n=ts==k and cut that bag open and drained the fluid. Then they cut the extended peritoneal sac off up at the inguinal canal and stitched the opening back together, sticted the nuts**k shut, sprayed the entire area with dense antiseptic and pain killed, jambed a hundred feet of imbibed gauze around it, pulled a giant jockstrap up on my ass and sent me to the recovery room. I was out of there about 1-1/2 hrs later to home.

      26 hours ago I was under the knife while knocked out and right now I am sitting peacefully at my desk painless without painkillers for more than 12 hours, for the first time in almost 5 years. Yes, even sitting before was murder. Now, nothing. Just as it should be.

      John's estimate is waaaay low.

      If you are over 50 (I was 55 at the time) and lift, you do so at great risk. My doctor told me he does 3 or 4 of these every week, and yet I never heard about them until I had one. Doods just don't talk about stuff *down there* I guess. But then, I don't fratrinize much, so there's that.

      Be careful and sorry for any spelling-gramar errors.

    4. I lift heavy weight all day at work. Thank you SOOOOO much for adding that little nightmare to my list of reasons to not sleep so well at night. :)

    5. If you keep in good enough shape, and avoid any large or sudden increase in weight you should be OK. plus it would happen on the job (or at least you could easily claim it did) which would put the company on the hook of the cost of the repairs, like ghostsniper said they repair isn't that horrid, just expensive and painful until fixed.

    6. My luck, as I'm always joking about "WORKMAN'S COMP!!!!!!" as I scrape my knuckle and it is freely bleeding, I might actually ever need it. Both my uncle and father had fluid retention issues there, so I'm hoping my job doesn't last so long it becomes an issue. Staying in shape is worth the small risk, anyway.

    7. If I were you I would avoid joking about workman's comp for the next few years (until retirement or you DO have to get it).
      Awareness is always half the battle on any issue.
      Immediate environmental and situational, and more long term long range, all helps, as does personal awareness of your own mind, habits, strengths and weaknesses
      I am aware I am 90% out of shape (but look to be 95% which is a bonus for me)
      I am aware I am of appearing very meek and mild most of the time, but if I show my temper - even just verbally or with a little glower- I terrify people. But what people don't know is that when I am NOT showing my temper and just get coldly distant is when I am judging if slaughtering everyone is worth it (currently the answer is always "not yet"). Again advantage me - especially as I am a good enough actor I can fake anger or righteous indignation easily.
      I am aware of where all the grain and lentils are stored (in which silos and when) around here-
      I am aware of who owns what sort of livestock, who has what ties to the sheriff, mayor, and city/county councilmen.
      I don't know *all* the emergency response plans of the local Fed LEO's but I have an awareness of how they think it ties to the sheriff and how the sheriff thinks it ties in to his plans. An awareness of when the situation is changing for everyone and for specific people and organization around you is essential.

    8. You sound like you know a heck of a lot of where folks are headed at first signs of collapse. Your intelligence is optimal. I, on the other hand...

  8. It appears that mere-disposal (no attempt to extract fats or re-use heat) problem has been solved and commercialized for the dairy farming industry: http://www.jdmfg.com/sites/live.jdmfg.com/files/pdfs/2603-2604_14i_cremator_wb.pdf
    One 3000 pound cow or 3000 pounds of mixed carcasses; just load the bin, close the lid and set the timer! Easy-peasy! Bio-secure ash can be spread in your garden to preserve nutrients. No smell with effective after-burner! Use with a variety of convenient fuels! Optional grate increases efficiency! Financing available!



  9. What JJ said - large and sudden increase.
    That's what I did, just like I had done hundreds of times before. We age, and we don't know what is going to fail....next. Those little inguinal canals look like a structural weak point to me. My doctor said he did 7 of these procedures last week and already has 4 scheduled for next week. When doing research on this stuff there is no shortage of examples on the web. Be careful and understand that you're not like you used to be though the signs may not be obvious.

  10. Almost forgot. This 45 minute procedure cost $14,900. There will be additional costs as recovery is ongoing and expected to last for months. We're not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but we are frugal and try to plan ahead and lead pretty simple existences. The lost money on this thing is just one part, the down time is unbearable because I've never been a sit-n-watch-tv-type. But I do read extensively, so there's that.

  11. Fair points pdxr13. I would also think that a medic (perhaps this is what you meant by your corpsman comment?) with some knowledge of herbal medicine would be near as good as a modern doctor (sans the god complex) that would be like a fish out of water without his millions of dollars worth of high tech equipment.

    And most post apocalyptic chemistry would probably fall under the category of simple chemistry procedures, such as the one's outlined in Dick's encyclopedia, and would probably only require someone with a high school chemistry background.

    I've spent a lot time in hospitals, most recently when my father was dying. It's hard to put into words, but I've discovered by witnessing modern medical practioners in practice, a type of person that exists in a way as to have the intelligence to get through medical school, yet basically, they are not very bright in any other way. And unfortunately, not even particularly so in their chosen profession. I do not take this statement lightly, and would not even make this claim had I not witnessed repeated incompetence among many medical personnel. Perhaps the chap below has a better description of it than I have to offer.

    "Despite all the hoo-ha it doesn’t take much brains to be a doctor. You see him with a complaint, he asks you a few questions and maybe pokes you a little, and gives you a prescription. It might help you a lot, a little, or not at all. It might not help you at all but you get better by the workings of your body, so you’re happy and don’t go back. Maybe the problem continues or gets worse, you go back and try something else, or he sends you to another doctor. Even if the doctor is stupid and incompetent, the treatments will probably not do you any harm. If you need surgery, then you will need to go to a more highly-trained, intelligent and competent set of doctors. But even surgery really isn’t brain surgery, even if it’s brain surgery. A really smart guy figures out how to remove a brain tumor, shows some other fairly smart guys how to do it, and they do it. Surgeons say- “See one, do one, teach one.”


    1. How many doctors used to smoke like a chimminy? How many actually think outside the prescribed box treating/preventing cancer. I'm sure you have a valid point.

    2. Thanks James; and yes, it was cancer that my father had suffered from. The doctors only knew the conventional treatment methods (chemotherapy and radiation). And the only purpose that they served was to kill him far quicker than he would have died on his own, and costs a fortune to do so (i.e. we paid them handsomely for the privilege of killing him in a faster and far more gruesome manner).

    3. I respect doctors, although I don't blindly trust them. It is the medical monopoly I hate. But I can see what you are saying. If most/all sink to mediocracy, why wouldn't doctors? A collapsing civilization takes everyone down with them.


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