Thursday, February 13, 2020


Bare Bones List
I have never been able to see the validity of expensive knives. You need a metal of a certain composition and the design a certain shape, and ideally coming from the factory ground to the correct angle. How can an individual or specialty boutique produce a superior enough product over robots to justify the price differential? You can own knives custom made and enjoy it as a piece of art, granted, but as a tool I think not. Even if you disagree with me and feel you are so advanced from the rest of the human race that you simply most be pampered with only the very best, you still need to buy knives in bulk.
Disqualifying the worst manufactures and the worst companies lacking all quality control, more often than not your average knife from China or other low price leader is going to fall under the 90/10 Rule. Yes, normally it is the 80/20 rule. 80% of the performance for 20% of the price. But with factory verses custom knives it seems more like 90/10. You can buy nine adequate knives for the price of one super duper deluxe bragging rights included guaranteed knife. Beware the man with only one gun, or one knife. He is an idiot.
Now, I WOULD beware the man with one gun ( Because He Knows How To Use It, as the saying goes ), if he owned duplicates of that one gun. If he ONLY had one gun because he was too daft to re-prioritize his life around preparedness ( NOT just a part time hobby. What? You think a weak half assed effort is enough for a civilization collapse? ). Knives are even worse. You only bought ONE knife? Are you insane? Do you think Darwin will allow you to procreate?
You don't buy a knife. You don't buy knives. You buy dozens of knives. Hopefully a dozen at a time, but a total of smaller purchases will do nice enough I suppose. And notice, if you will, that Amazon didn't take over the knife industry. There are still plenty of vendors out there. They might just be mail order rather than retail, as it is a bit hard to pay the rent with knife purchases ( THE primary death of malls and retail is the bankers financializing the economy, jacking up rents to nose bleed levels, NOT Amazon, you simple hump ).
You cannot buy dozens of knives if you are hung up on supposed quality of custom knives. After the collapse of the Oil Age and the Industrial Age, you are going to learn first hand how much it sucks to have to trade with craftsmen, each purchase, literally, enough to pay his rent and send his kid to school. There will be no more economics of scale, nor a one off mass energy dump at below production cost ( most oil is purchased below true cost after the military is factored in. WAY below if the cost of all past wars over oil is calculated. This is why your dumb ass buys Industrial Age products NOW, while the true cost isn't passed on to you ).
I don't have a preference of stainless steel or carbon steel knifes. Carbon steel is better, with a better edge that lasts longer, but the price is higher ( except Mora knives ) and in the future gun and knife oil will be more dear. You can ignore and neglect a stainless steel gun more often. I buy stainless only to get nearly free knives in bulk, and then buy carbon whenever I can as a preference-when-possible. I also buy and store bulk amounts of automotive transmission fluid as gun/knife oil.
Like clothing, shelter is going to be a rather easy item to salvage for a short time after the collapse. Unless everyone dies of Ebola, and most clothing is covered in liquefied internal organs and other contagious fluids. As it is, a lot will be pretty nasty after the water shuts off and people are little retards when it comes to sanitation that requires a small amount of effort. Nowadays, they sit around and sweat on the sofa, their overabundance of body fat making the mere act of breathing so laborious they perspire copiously. They can barely be bothered to bend down, pick up their soiled clothing, add soap to a machine and then push a button.
You think I'm kidding. How many people let laundry pile up to the point they are smelling everything to find one item not offensive to their fellow beached wales at the cubicle farm? When the grid goes down and the water is shut off, most houses will have 99% dirty laundry, yet have only enough soap for one and a half more loads of laundry. They will start wearing clothes WAY too long. Oh, goodness, it's SOOOoooo cold in here. What's insulation? What's alternate heat? So they wear the same three pairs of socks around the clock until they are black and smell like the first three feet of someone's intestines.
That doesn't even factor in people liquid tooting into their underwear as dirty water and an unfamiliar irregular diet irritates their bowels which are used to moving regularly only after they visit Taco Bell ( the kings of “33% real meat taco filling” ). I don't think I'm going to be relying on salvaging clothing, as much as possible. And shoes? Shoes are made of recycled PET bottles and faerie feces, any more. They are crap, made to be worn on cubicle warriors feet as they man their computer, not actually used past a few yards travel a day. I sure wouldn't rely on salvaging shoes.
But shelter? That should be easy enough. I don't mean actually using existing homes as a shelter, but they will contain oodles and gobs of salvageable material that you can use to built proper homes with. In many areas, that is earth sheltered and south facing. Some areas might be elevated from floods and open to the breeze, with a second roof for proper shade. NOT the current crap that needs 24/7 grid power to remain comfortable. And remember, earth sheltered doesn't have to mean below ground. It can be above ground with earthen sides and southern exposure.
You can salvage a butt ton of insulation and use that on the roof, with just a very small amount of dirt atop that. Just enough to keep the UV rays off of the 6 mil construction plastic. That is $60 a roll, but indispensable for tapping into the earths thermal battery. Plastic sheeting on the roof, then also away from the roof to keep the dirt on the sides dry. A VERY small fire and body heats keeps the place livable. A beaver in a mud and stick shelter in the middle of a pond in a Canadian winter has a constant thirty two degree interior temperature when it is minus twenty Fahrenheit outside.
My hole in the ground, with only the roof insulated with one layer of fiberglass and two inches of dirt over that, stayed forty degrees overnight with no heat. Waking up and perking a pot of coffee and the temperature rose to fifty. It was minus fifteen every night for three weeks during a polar vortex ( about five above in the day ). Even poorly built and designed underground homes are great for winter with almost no fire. And yes, I tested the dirt prior. It was near rock hard clay. But just in case I built wider than deep. If you don't live in a desert, your construction must differ to account for excess rain. Just throwing that out there.
Shelter is easy. Luxurious, large and wasteful shelter, not so much. Basic shelter, just think tons of insulation and solar gain. Or, if you live in the south, just shade from the sun or the rain. There is a reason most folks live in the tropics-cold sucks if you don't insulate properly. Plus, in the cold you need a fattier diet. That in itself precludes a lot of population.
( .Y. )
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  1. Yes, knive(S), lots and in many differing variations. The knife is mankinds first and best tool extension of his hands, ever. To not have a form of a knife on your person at all times is a violation of Minion protocols.

    Use a two tier purchase aquistion strategy when stocking. A large numerical amount of sacrificial disposable types of cheap knives and other type implements can be obtained from those atypical outlets. I.E. bud k type catalogs, gun show gypsy type table sellers, late night infomercial package sales deals from wholesaler types. These options are a BTN option to jumpstart an inventory, and stock deep barter or lend lease items.

    A next tier level would be a higher grade, (but not the yuppie redoubt craftsman hubris priced items) outlets like 'Smokey Mountain Knife' works catalog company /as an example. (Kershaw, cold steel, etc) Gunshows will have those privateer chaps who will middle man sell the better brand named knifes boxed/n.i.b., with better prices due to business model (overhead, location mobility, and allows for prices haggling leverage) I have dabbled in both realms with good results. Think in terms of tool usage and utility purposes. Skip those rambo or movie blades that are useless and look ridiculous to your geezer ass purposes. Get small stashable folders and mid sized or larger working man folders. Also have variations of fixed blades, like Jim's Moras and fillet types on up to ranch hand, hunters pattern, skinning types, then get a few military patterned large in charge types. Those will be needed later for torture interrogation, ammo conservation, sound stealth dispatching purposes. Add that sharpening equipment to your basket while 'shopping your way to survivalism'.

    Knives are top listing needed items during collapse.
    Food, guns/ammo, fresh undies and socks, knives. Pretty much rounds things out right there. Stay frosty.

    1. Skip most 1980's designed knives. :) Rambo, ninja and D&D. Perhaps also Walking Dead, but that doesn't make it a neat single decade of poor Hollywood choices.

    2. just a cook here . really a cook lol .
      one time I found myself in a very cash positive position .
      Iwanted the best I could buy with the thought that I only wanted to cry at the price one time !
      And you must understand Im a COOK.
      Found what appeared to be the best . Cold Steel Trailmaster in SAN MAI 3. Different metals mashed toghether for superior blade .
      I have no financial interest in this company .
      Best friggen blade I have EVER had !
      I have NEVER had to sharpen it .
      Killed a boar with it . Butchered it . still shave the hair off my arm .
      Dressed a deer with it ,chopped bone and skinned it .Still hair cutting sharp .
      Cut small gauge metal with it . guess what friggen thing is like is that al you got?
      I did cry on my purchase price but dammit I in my long career of cutting shit aint EVER seen a knife take the abuse I have given it . And it still will shave at a fine degree with never having to sharpen it . It is fucking stupid how good it is .
      Had it for 10 YEARS now and its still so friggen sharp I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT .
      But I was concerned when I bought it because of price .
      But every once in awhile it appears that paying for quality does indeed not cost as much it seems

    3. Here is my issue, for prepping. Not Business As Usual use. You lose it, break it, it is stolen, there is no replacement. That is my main reason for going lesser quality, but more. Because you stocking for a lifetime(s).

    4. @ Anon 7am,

      I looked into the Cold Steel and decided to get one after watching the video they did. 😲

      Some reviews have stated that there are factory seconds out there. They have small flaws in them. 🤔

      At just over $250 bucks with tax, I hope my sings to me as well as do the job. 😉

      Our Lord Bison will have to wait another 6 months or so, before I'm able to contribute to his hair care again. 😅

      Sorry boss. 🤩

    5. No worries-I'm in this for the long run. At least until one of us dies.

  2. I had always wanted a Damascus knife. I finally purchased one as a pocket knife and was pleased as it was very pretty. It was however to soft and I had to sharpen it after every use. It has been put up now and I am back to a Buck pocket knife with a 2 3/4" blade. Hard to sharpen but holds an edge plus it was only about 25% of the price.

    1. Okay, I always wondered about the Damascus knives seemingly priced too good to be true. Thanks.

    2. Damascas blades are some one's hobby metalurgy project. Like those rainbow colored titanium or other zippy show and tell with the boys at the shop coatings. All will have some shortcomings or price upcharge versus true utility. Stick with simple carbon/stainless, although Minions should be allowed one ceremonial bling blade, for those hari kari or ritual sacrifice duties and all.

      Stay frosty sharp.

    3. There had to be a reason they were so renowned way back in the day.

    4. Damascus now isn’t what it was back when it was renowned. OTOH, much of today’s advancements in metallurgy are due to people trying to solve the mystery of Damascus steel.

    5. Okay, so it used to be Nike shoes, until they were made in China :)

  3. re:

    The Goodwill and Saint Vincent stores in Eugene Oregon have dozens of ninety-nine cent kitchen knives.
    Most are worth ninety-nine cents, but, occasionally, I come across a keeper.
    And, as an aside, I have zero issue pawing through bins of donated kitchen knives... I'm convinced they were donated because idjits have no concept of sharpening a knife they dull through mis-use.
    I owned a restaurant for ten years, I grew-up on a farm surrounded by sturdy hardship cases and survivors of another GreatDepression©.
    I may have some experience with knives., and in my experience, anything boxed with a wood counter-top holder is destined for donation.
    Buy new knives at a kitchen supply warehouse, a place with no heat in the endless aisles of commercial kitchen equipment.


    earth-berm building

    I survived The $50 And Up Underground Home by Mike Ohler(sp?).

    And I own the three-volumne set of big-buck underground home building by architect David Wright.
    If you want an asteroid-proof residence of reinforced concrete, Wright's program is the go-to.
    He says never cut into a hillside to create your uphill patio, gravity inevitably wins that tussle.

    Around the corner from us is a busy tire store.
    They always have several dozen discard tires free for anybody wanting to build an earthship.

    As an aside, foragers are sorting the discard tires the instant the tire shop closes at 6pm.
    Anything with any value goes on Craigslist.
    Would I trust my delicate sensitive flesh to a used tire from somebody standing on a corner?
    Probably not.
    But, according to learned sources, this is the decline, not TheCollapse©.

    1. Even established businesses are no guarantee to protect your delicate flesh. Or governments or organizations. Looking at your Mammon First policy, WHO.

    2. 'Atta boy' & thumbs up yesterday's comment from LargeMarge

      "..reminds me to strengthen my relationships with decent folk.
      Stuff is dandy, proven trustables willing to help out on a 'rough day at work' are better."

      Lord Bison....learn from your minions.
      Your aura will brighten and word of your new found wisdom will encourage the people and soothe their anxious hearts.

      But I'm keeping my John Rambo serrated spine Hunter II collector edition corrosion resistant knife with mini compass and hollow handle (fishing line/hook not included). Just in case.

  4. Heating and cooling a building through brute force is so yesterday.

    An issue addressed by Kesson(sp?) in his nuclear survival book is humidity.
    Every resident of a RecreationVehicle understands the necessity of controlling humidity.
    For example, irregardless of weather, I open every window on my ExpeditionVehicle before I leave for the day.

    One of my hobbies is walking wrecking yards.
    Every RecreationVehicle used as a residence is jam-packed with mold.
    Yes... during normal times.

    During the remainder of this collapse, living in a moldy environment with an immune system compromised by stress and poor diet is a one-way path to me divving-up your gear to the grateful folks in your will.
    We'll always remember your generosity.

    1. People can be generous, as long as they don't realize it :)

    2. Cresson should be mandatory reading if you plan on a small underground dwelling in my humble opinion. Most of his shelters are only four foot wide, be can be expanded pretty easily. Sandbags are another option. I watched a video on YouTube where they built an 8x8 foot root cellar underground with them.

      Shoes are a concern of mine, mostly because I have no experience making them and the books I have read doesn't inspire me to start. After my supply of Army surplus pigskins wear out, I plan to go to a combination of Russian footwrap/moccasin/Ho Chi Ming sandals.

      I don't get too hung up on knives. I carry a Leatherman and an unknown brand of pocketknife I found along the roadside years ago that seems indestructible and holds an edge forever. I also have made enough of them to fill in the gaps as needed. If you want something to batten wood with, get a froe.

    3. As someone who has butchered a lot of stuff I can say good knife steel is very important. Therefore I go for medium price knives. They arr not horses where you swap a dead on for a fresh one. Dead meaning dull. I like the Ontario rat style knives. That blade shape can skin and butcher anything.

      Cheap trade knives, sure! I've also been in knife fights and have been slashed! Luckily, Mr Blackman didn't have a sharp knife. Otherwise I would be liverless.

      I would say a minion needs three postapoc knives on him at all times. A deep carry tiny backup. A full sized dagger or military fighting knife - kept sharp and only used as a weapon. And a utility knife that can split wood and construct shelters. Like a large bowie knife. Only two are needed in safer areas, big and small. But you need a good stabber for spicy times. Stabs kill faster. Anything over 7 inches... The 21 foot rule!

      Also machetes! Anything from South America is good. Very versatile! Can be better than a dagger because reach. Take that arm! Bigger is better.

      The best knife fight is the one YOU AVOID! By having a big scary knife you psych out your opponent.

      Besides the fail of the scambo knives, if you manage to stab somebody with it, it will get stuck in them! Because dumb saw... However, a machete with a saw back is a good idea. You won't be batoning a machete anyway so why not? Just know that the thicker a machete is, the harder it is for you to use it.


      Besides paracord, a good multi-size staple stapler and lots of staples are a good idea! A stapled plastic in the sun only lasts two years so stuck plastic deep while it exists. Also ductape!

      Much thanks to the minion the other day with the plastic dome tale! Seems like wood is better! (Damn! That plastic system looked so quick and easy! Maybe if it has ferrocrete?)

      Great stuff, THANKS.

    4. I read that the Germans (Prussians?) in WWI had trouble with their saw back bayonets. They'd get stuck in the unfortunate that got the business end. Sometimes the Prussian (German?) would fire their Mauser to retract the weapon. Other times they'd abandon the rifle and pick up another that was dropped by an unfortunate soul in that senseless slaughter

      (I still can't work out how WWI started. The official explanation doesn't make sense. It's "the North Vietnamese Navy attacked the mightiest Navy in the World" tier pork pie)

    5. How it started isn't important. Why it did is more to the point. It was all on the days declining empire England. Having long been surpassed by Germany and America economically ( cough, China today, cough ), a lot of roads lead to her manipulation of events.

  5. I once purchased one of those hollow handled Rambo knives. The problem with such a knife, is that when the blade ends, rather than continuing on to a full tang for strength, there’s merely a threaded end that screws into a hollow aluminum handle. In other words, for basic use, it might work, but for anything labor intensive, it will almost certainly fail, right where the handle meets the end of the blade. If one really wishes to have a hollow handled knife, get the version that is machined from a solid billet of steel (Schrade makes one for a reasonable price). But really, why bother? So that you can have a survival kit in the handle of your knife? You can sew a pouch on the sheath and put a survival kit in that. Or better yet, have a survival kit separate, so that if you lose the knife, you still have a small survival kit elsewhere. In fact, you probably want to have more than one such kit on your person regardless, for some added redundancy.

    Folders can be nice, but are inherently weak under heavy use, when compared to a fixed blade. Try to mostly get full tang, fixed blade knives, whenever possible. You also need a way to sharpen all of these items forever, so don’t forget about that.

    I also see the use of having a large chopping knife, under certain circumstances. “Why not get an ax or a saw”, someone might chime in? Well, you can, but if you do get an ax, get one with an unbreakable synthetic handle. Also, in my opinion, the small hand axes are more or less useless. A kukri is a far better chopper.

    Blue state denizens have it easy. All that you have to do is walk into the local “woke” Café, and right up to the nearest Lumbersexual that you encounter, for all your tool advice. Just be aware that if he asks you if you wish to see his “wood”, that it means something much different than what you’re thinking it does. So be prepared to politely excuse yourself, and run like hell in the opposite direction, lest you end up being saddled with the unfortunate nickname of “wood socket”. Oh well. I suppose that’s the one advantage of living in an insane clown culture. There’s plenty of material out there for comedic relief :D

  6. I've shared it before but I'll share it again. The survival course I undertook the instructor shared this tidbit about knives. If you require a cutting edge. Bang two rocks together and there you go, a sharp edge for cutting game you've bludgeoned to death or to cut cordage or what have you. NOTE he didn't say don't have a knife. Just if you caught yourself without one. Heck you can use the edge of a table and saw back and forth (no, not with the table dumb dumb)

    Regarding Amazon. More specifically Bezo's. I read that if you arrived in America on the Mayflower, got a great job on day one, one that allowed you to save $5,000 a day, you worked 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, put that money under a mattress and worked until today, Bezo's would still have more money than you. But let's be honest. We'd all rather have a head of hair as magnificent as Lord Bisons than have Bezo's wealth.

    Seriously though. Imagine being that wealthy and getting such low tier women? Sheesh

    1. If I were Bezos bitch, I would sooner shove a flare gun up my hooter and pull the trigger than look up at that bald leering freakshow pumping on me. And, honestly, the worlds best wife would still be tempted by billions of dollars. Mother Teresa herself would have been tempted. Popes have turned evil over less wealth.

    2. The imagery of that first sentence will never leave me, boss. Some real sho'nuff award winning words there.
      Oh,from where does such talent arise?

    3. Talent, or a room full of monkey's with typewriters? Sorry, trade secret

    4. Or broken glass, that stuff goes through everything if its meat based.

      Butcher - paring - steak knives by Old Hickory will do fine, but carbon blades will rust if not "patinad". Even then - require some care.

      Machetes are for thorny and/or thin limbed plants and grasses, not for chopping wood (especially hard wood species). If you live in the North Woods, a machete will be wasted unless you use it as a weapon. Then its pretty bad ass melee weapon, they command respect. Grasping the handle and the back of the blade near the front, they not only block blows but will shear off meat. Good if someone is pushing against you. Very soft metal so they need to be maintained. Inexpensive Gavilan and Tramontina are work horses, well known south of our U.S. border.

    5. I think the Rada brand stainless are excellent kitchen knives.

  7. Nice discussion about machetes. Unless you have actually used one, not something I recommend. I have probably destroyed almost a dozen of the cheap ones, lol. Maybe a decent Ontario bolo would be okay, for the most part I would go with a combo of a decent Marine combat knife and a roofers hammer instead. Personally I don't fear large knifes when in self defense. I have had occasions to defeat them using the T shirt I was wearing. Incidentally that technique works well for baseball bats as well.

    1. I've always thought machetes blew goat ass, but then I've never had quality ones either. Kukri's are the bomb.

    2. Instead of using a T-shirt to defend ones self from a knife / baseball attack I should imagine a decent pair of track shoes and a missus. Shove the missus towards the attacker and then impersonate hussain bolt. Handsome men that make the grade of minion are rare & ladies willing to please minions will be aplenty in the apocalypse, because minions will have food (well kind of).

    3. Hmmm...yes, a much better plan. Even the skinniest gal takes longer to cut through than a T-shirt. That said, the Willing To Throw factor is proportionate to the size of the bosoms.

  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

    1. I've had minions send me Mora's and brand name. Never cheap crap. As much as I yell at them, a class act bunch.

    2. Mora's are cheap crap but decent knives for da money.
      Sorry but Kershaw is my favorite , only Kai steel Kershaw built in Oregon tho...good thing I bought them back when earning stupid amounts lol.
      Also like Schrade, Gerber and Marble for a cheap South American knife.
      Yes of course I have a few Mora's too.

      Then too , I've got a Negrito Bolo with an 18 3/4" blade which I picked up in the Philippines back in 72. Good to carry in an over the back scabbard. Got plenty of use in a deep dark place in the jungle...

      Cheap is good, better than nothing if poor. Quality is always mo betta tho ifn ya can afford.
      Custom Randel's are for wanna be rich dudes however...

    3. You might be poor if you "treat yourself" with Mora's :)

    4. Hey DG, I like the Opinels too. Simple, lightweight, reasonably priced, good thin slicers for food prep. I pocket carried one outside during two rainy days recently and the wood swelled a bit making opening really tough, but still doable. Back to normal when dry.
      I have my dad's Old Hickory fillet knife that cleaned many a fish caught in years of cast netting (salt water). The blade is thinned down from countless sharpenings and the wood handle has a carved out groove around the end for a lanyard.
      I'm pretty sure Ontario Knife Co. makes Old Hickory. Which by the way, their machetes are good carbon steel and I have a few that have extensive use. They excel at green wood or living vegetation. King of the jungle.
      I have used crap machetes with crummy steel where the edge rolls over when trying to cut anything. You think, jeez, am I retarded or is it this damn machete? One was a Cold Steel brand made in Sud Afrika.
      Mora knives excel at woodworking tasks due to scandi grind. U have purchased just blade for carving knifes to handle myself which is an option.

    5. True dat bro. And you ain't getting paid anything for saying so unlike some do.
      Flea markets are also a good place to pick up quality used for low bucks.

    6. Hey Spud, Your Phillipine bolo: made from a leaf spring? 18" seems to be the sweet spot for jungle chopper. Wood sheath?
      Agree on your sentiment; nothing wrong with cheap, esp if that is only option. An upgrade in quality for an essential everyday tool doesn't hurt if able.

    7. Anon 11:13
      Yes indeed it was made from a leaf spring. I opted for a leather and wood combo sheath for wearing on the back. Took the dude just an afternoon to whoop it out too.

    8. My machete was made in El Salvador.
      Who knows more about a good machete than an El Salvadorian 😊

  9. Lord Bison, you have wondrous flowing locks of hair of such quality that angels weep.

    So, you see that I'm going to disagree . . .

    Cold is better. Yes, it's harder. But what does Lord Remus say about crowds? I'd much rather take my chances in a scantly populated North versus a post-apocalyptic Southern Cal.

    Difficulty - cold will kill you. Counter argument? People are much more efficient than cold at killing you. I assume we're talking about a W.I.L.D.E.R.™ 7 or so?

    1. Not sure what we are disagreeing about. I think cold is superior myself. And, apologies for being an idiot. I'll post the Wilder Doom Scale on today's article. Can't believe I spaced that off. Where are we headed shortly? More like an 8. I don't discount 9.

  10. There is a difference between a decent mass produced knife and a top tier knife. I carry a couple of knives at all times, and have done so since I was 9 or so. They are the sort of thing that, if taken care of, will last generations.
    If I am equipping a battalion with knives, I go with cheap but serviceable. If I am carrying it on my belt for a decade or three, I want the best I can get. Not the most expensive, but the best.

    1. See, you envision decades of a perfect tool being used. I envision theft, losing in a fall, or a fire, etc. I prefer the Soviet doctrine of quantity over quality. That used to be the American doctrine also, but that is verbotten as it implies we didn't care about the troops and just used human wave tactics.

  11. I think simple is better. When I was sailing I carried a one-handed folder with a scalloped edge for cutting line. Now that I am not sailing I avoid the scalloped edges. Have uo ever tried to sharpen one? When I was younhg I worked for Bill Pennell at Olga Bay, Kodiak for a couple of seasons. They used nothing but Old Timer knives. Separate skinners for hides, as well as other shapes. The reasoning was thet they didn't hold an edge for long but were dead easy to sharpen. Made sense. Still does. When I hunted moose or whateve I carried a small butcher kit including an OT skinner and a small scalpel like knife. Also a hacksaw frame with a piece of meat saw blade in it.