note: OG in NM, thank you for the extra generous snail mail donation ( and the nice letter ). Happy Festivus!
Almost two months ago I wrote an article, “pistola”, making my case that after the apocalypse you really, honest injun, didn’t need a pistol. I haven’t totally changed my mind, but I thought I needed to play Devil’s Advocate and attempt to make a case for rather than against. I had said that after the collapse you should always have your rifle with you, negating the need for a sidearm. You should also be a true light infantryman, mobility and stealth and stamina far more important than carrying everything up to and including the kitchen sink just because “just in case”.
Allow me to detour for a second. The infantryman’s kit is a strategic consideration, not a tactical one. I would wager that this has been true for almost all official nation states militaries throughout history. And we all know that the majority of military leaders are politicians rather than strategists. The exceptions are very rare. You might know a few scattered WWII Generals names, mostly because they ended up as Presidents or more likely a future base or weapon was named for them, but I’ll bet that one name that is intuitive to everyone is Erwin Rommel. He was so good, no amount of tireless anti-Nazi propaganda could ever smear him ( Speer played up his pencil playing to save himself, throwing everyone else under the bus )( Patton I have issues with, starting with his role in the veterans peace march massacre ).
Just because the military decrees that an item of equipment is mission vital certainly does not make that true. Keep in mind that it is usually Mission Vital that you die gloriously as cannon fodder, following nonsensical orders from incompetents. And that starts with overloading the fighters. My entire point is of course that if one stuck to the tactics that made sense, and the logistics, they would more likely than not NOT come anywhere close to mirroring those of the military.
Not being post-collapse, yes, a pistol is nice for concealed carry since we are in a perpetual state of low intensity conflict ( which, obviously, goes a long way towards explaining LEO behavior. Those militia porn sites like Western Rifleman seem to miss this as they flail about insisting on our illusive freedoms ) in this country. And so, yes, most likely all of us have a sidearm anyway and it isn’t even going to be an extra expense. The investment was already made. So, my argument was largely directed at newbies, extreme Po Boys and also those delusional about their ability to carry a huge combat load ( even at age 18, let alone 48 ).
I made yet another plea for bayonet carry, as a back-up for emergencies. No, it does no good it you just dumped your last mag and need to do a quick pistol draw and fire ( although I would argue if there were that may that close, you are humped anyway ). But after all my writing and all the comments and comment replies, I had missed one consideration. You might need a pistol after all. You might need to put a bullet in your own head. If you need to self-administer a coup de grace, a bayonet or knife simply is not going to cut it ( pun initially unintentional, but pretty cool, eh? ).
Two things are going to be very different very soon. Either in the coming civil war, guerrilla war or tribal conflict, you can bet on the return of two miserable conditions. Torture, and lack of medical care. I know you all go Full Retard on playing combat surgeon planner, discussing endlessly emergency trauma care and alternate medicines, staying up late at night comparing your first aid kit supplies, but all that nonsense is akin to semi-auto rifle talk. It is good for the die-off phase and that is about it.
No one seems to get that our entire existence and infrastructure is Oil Age based. And that means that you are comparing the energy given off by a burning piece of wood to the energy given off by a stick of dynamite. EVERY HUMPING THING you see or do or think about has that exponential energy embedded into it. And there is simply no way on Baby Jesus’ green Earth that you can come anywhere close to duplicating that later on. Trauma medicine is so advanced that the military sends their people to train at a hospital serving the ghetto. All their months of schooling are inadequate. And you think you can come close to any of that training?
Antibiotics are another high tech, high energy item that I find problematic to duplicate. There are alternatives that certainly help. But when you take a hundred bucks and buy all the “necessary” fish medicines, you are ONLY buying lottery scratch off tickets. Professional long trained doctors ( I shan’t start in on the quality of their training-I’ll just say they rival generals in most fields except trauma or specialized surgury ) can’t always correctly diagnose and prescribe the right antibiotics. And you will? It is a placebo. Like all that crap you carted into combat, winded at the first hundred yards and then trying to be all ninja stealthy afterwards.
After a very short time when all the supplies are used up, you are going to face a choice of suffering for a very long time and most likely still dieing from a lot of different injuries, or having the grace and good sense to bust a cap in your own ass. Yes, you could in theory just use your rifle. But you want a clean shot, through the roof of your mouth into your brain. Any shot “off” could just screw you up really bad but keep you alive to suffer even more. Make sure your rifle can be used for this, and always keep a spare round safe and ready.
But you could be so injured that you can’t maneuver that long ass rifle into place. The rifle could be damaged, and then you are left with only a knife. And if you are gut shot and can only count on hours of pain, or if you are surrounded by enemies known to torture their prisoners for very long periods of time, you want something that will painlessly and expediently end your suffering, or prevent it. You are dead anyway. It isn’t suicide as much as a mercy killing. These two possible-very probably-events give me pause about NOT carrying a pistol.
Not some big mamba jamba twenty shot extruded plastic pistol carried by John Wayne disciples thinking it is a good combat weapon ( there was a reason combat troops were trying to carry M1 Carbines rather than 45’s or Tommy or Grease guns ). A small and lightweight pistol. Not so small it is impractical to find or anemic to use like a Saturday Night Special pot metal 25, and not so big it weighs you down. I’d feel okay with a 22 revolver if it was light enough. The revolvers can be very cheap. So can a 380. $100 to $150 is by no means unaffordable to almost every single one of us. Or, a small double shot in larger caliber. Do I recall correctly seeing one you could carry around your neck?
I can tell you that I don’t think I could dispatch myself by knife or bayonet. I wouldn’t have the strength or courage to hari-kari. Putting a gun in my mouth and pulling the trigger? No problem. If needs be, obviously. Something to think about, either the tucked away cartridge or the tucked away very small sidearm.
END ( today's related link http://amzn.to/2AX8jrM )
* By the by, all my writing is copyrighted. For the obtuse out there
Both my wife and I have NAA 5 shot , 22 magnums. They are reliable yet safe quality little revolvers. Excellent hide out weapons for anything close inReplyDelete
Excuse the stupid question, but are magnums like a 357, where you could use the LR/38 also? I ask just to get a feel for it as an investment. If I only need a few boxes of magnums and can back-up with LR, great. But if it is a gun that only takes fifty cent ammo I might consider a 380 or similar. Not enough info either way.Delete
Yes, go with 357 magnum-heavier frame durable. Use 357 magnum for big game put downs, use 38 special fmj ball or lead round nose for day to day, works well on humans as well...Delete
A side arm of sufficient power/capacity will be handy-necessary. There will be numerous scenarios of security, detentions, executions, that will require said tool. Just another eventuality that must be considered, and plan accordingly.Delete
No, it’s different Jim. A .38 special is simply a shorter .357 (with a thinner case than a .357). A .357 is too long on purpose to chamber into an exclusive .38 special handgun.Delete
A .22 long rifle and a .22 magnum shoot the same exact bullet, but the case on a .22 magnum is slightly fatter on purpose, to prevent from chambering one into a .22 LR. That’s why the Ruger .22 Single Six convertible (Hence the convertible terminology) comes with two cylinders, one for .22 LR and one for the .22 magnums.
Now I have heard of people shooting .22 LR in .22 magnum guns, but the shell fits a little loose, so it’s not recommended.
923: I was asking if a 22LR would fit and fire in a 22 Magnum, and comparing it to the 38 going into a 357. Sorry, I didn't make that clear enough. I already have a 357. That, 22lr and 303b are the only calibers I own. I would consider a few boxes of magnum 22's but I need to compare pistol and ammo prices.Delete
928: all your examples I can see easily handled with bayonets. The point of my original article two months previous.Delete
Per your question Jim. The 22 Magnum is longer and fatter than 22 lr, so you need separate cylinders for each.Delete
NAA has a model which comes with both matched cylinders. My wife's gun is like that. Mine only will take magnums.
The 22 Magnum only, runs around $250 new.
Dual cylinder model $300
Pricey for something which fits in the palm of your hand. Good quality tiny revolver though , a true pocket gun. Much more potent than a 25 auto yet about that size.
No. 22 LR will not work in a .22 Mag.Delete
Thank you. Yes, I could search all that online, but people answering always include better answers/analysis. I see I'd be much better off financially with a snub 22, a 380, or another option entirely, as long as I sacrifice on the shrinking.Delete
Another reason for a pistol is that a rifle is difficult to keep in one's hands 24/7/365. Cutting wood, gardening, shoveling, etc. require two hands, so the long gun gets put aside or slung. It's much faster to unholster a handgun than to get that rifle off your back.ReplyDelete
Oh, I agree. The rifle isn't optimal. But, if you can only afford one, you get the rifle and make it work somehow. After you have the ammo you need for the rifle, then you can add the pistol which can MOSTLY be considered a luxury. Except in the above, and even then you can force the rifle into that role, except in worse case rifle damage scenario. This is mostly about prioritizing. If you don't have the funds for food, you make the rifle work before you think about getting a pistol. Part of the ongoing effort to get folks to not make guns the top of the shopping list.Delete
Leave to you to come up with a new perspective on any topic out there, even one you don't necessarily agree with. One more reason why I love this blog...ReplyDelete
Today's article brought to mind a comment made by my manager of the first real job I had in my chosen profession. He was a tough but fair fellow, a Marine who served in Korea and also as a drill sergeant when he returned to the States. One day our group was talking and the topic moved to firearms. He noted that in Korea he carried his issued Thompson SMG and M1911 pistol but also had a hideout 38 snub-nosed revolver that was readily accessible at all times. I was puzzled by that and asked him why. He said that after he'd had a few experiences with waves of enemy soldiers nearly overrunning his position, and had seen the horrible things that happened to the soldiers who had been overrun, he started carrying the 38. He said that if he ever found himself in that situation he knew he would end up holding an empty Thompson and empty 1911 and still be facing another wave. In that event he said that he would save the last round in the 38 for himself. After I got to know him well over the years I came to believe he was not kidding.
Damn, I would NOT want to be that poor bastard. Honestly, I don't know what brought to mind the subject. I mean, torture has been foremost in my thinking for some time-I just hadn't a solution. Like when you find your car keys by NOT thinking about them, I guess my brain just likes surprising me. That was how I finally came up with the Jim Washer ( rocking chair holding the bucket, using your leg muscles ) and a lot of other solutions. Which is why I Hoover info and don't try to organize or catalog it. I leave it to my subconscious. Messy, slow and damn effective when it does work.Delete
Thank you great haired one excellent article as always but you outdid yourself on this one. Just a reminder ham is dirt cheap right now already spiral sliced cut for $0.97 a pound at my local Kroger limit two. But I found it's only limit 2 per purchase. It makes great jerky in the dehydrator and it's already cut for you.Happy Christmas, Lake Erie pirateReplyDelete
I was just at Kroger today and noticed the ham-I think it was more along the lines of $1.20 or .30-but gave it little thought. I gave up on drying the hot dogs. All other meat came down and they went up. So I haven't done that for probably up to two years now. Lower priority. Back to stocking up on stick lumber after I went for another 3k rounds of 22. Big pack of frensel lenses. Waiting for, hopefully, after X-Mas sugar to go back down to $1. Nothing I really need, just taking my time on sales. Happy Festivus!Delete
If you’re just looking for a small, compact pistol, Jim, that can be used for close up unexpected combat situations, or as you say, should you find yourself in an unfortunate situation should dispatching yourself become a real possibility, I’d look for a used .38 Special at a pawn shop. There’s got to be millions of those things out there having been the main choice of police depts for many years. Get a snub nose .38 special if you’re concerned about weight, because a .357 will have a heavy frame. If you plan on hunting with it, then obviously you will need one with a longer barrel. Sportsman’s guide has some really compact little 9mm pistols at a reasonable price, but I can’t speak for the quality, the main concern being if they ever jam, which would be really bad if you truly ever needed it.ReplyDelete
The following is not directed at anyone here, so please don’t anyone take offense. But the only way that I’d own a .22 magnum is if someone gave it to me. Anytime someone tells me that they’re considering purchasing a .22 magnum, I want to smack that person across the temple with an anvil. Here’s the logic. The .22 LR costs around $2.50 a box for 50. A .22 magnum costs around $10 for the same quantity. But you’re not getting 4 times the performance and range of the .22 LR, and you can’t even reload the frigging things! I’m sorry, but that’s a terrible purchasing decision! Is it a good round? You betcha. But the cost, coupled with the fact that it’s non-reloadable, makes it completely impractical. Again, not trying belittle anyone here. I only bring it up because I’ve seen more than a few comments here in the past suggesting that it’s a grand idea to purchase said caliber. For Spud’s intended purpose, since it will only be used in an emergency situation, then it probably makes sense. But for any other reason it really doesn’t.
You nailed it the last sentence. Those were my thoughts-I just pondered if it had possibilities ( the caliber ) in anything other than a once or twice use gun ( back-up in a crowded area, say trading-even thought the odds are against that being reestablished in my lifetime ). And, thank you. I preach revolvers for the non-jams as much as anything and I kind of forgot that criteria in this discussion. I learn from you guys every day, seriously. Even if it is reinforcing lessons I thought I had learned already. I have a light-er weight 22lr, it will do in a pinch if I never act on this. The light weight 38 would be my preference. I've needed a longer barrel 357 for twenty years now but I've mostly remained content with my snubby. So much more to purchase. It certainly isn't light though ( a good thing, being 357, although I mostly plan on just using 38 in it unless I run out of those. I got gifted hundreds of 357 rounds for one Christmas years ago. I liked that it was a 357 for the versatility but only bought it as it was a fire sale price.Delete
The Ruger Sp101 is the revolver I have my heart set on. First off I have to have a 22lr (by law) then it'd be the 38/357.
That being said I'm back at square one with acquiring a licence. Being a po-boy I don't think I'll ever get one due to legal requirements
I've heard California has gotten Full Retard with ammunition. As in, a new law makes you get something akin to the background check for it? Is Oz like that? I'm thinking ammo now and zip gun later, as needed. If that isn't feasible, how about a 20 gauge shotgun shell in a sleeve insert in a flare pistol ( I think they still have YouTube vids on that one )? You can't find a flare pistol around here anymore. They used to be $20. Now Big Daddy is interested and the price is $100. Still, if you can't get a pistol any other way.Delete
Nah the legal requirement of belonging to an expensive pistol Club is what's holding me back. Sure I *can* afford it but I have more pressing preps to attend to.Delete
I guess if the event happens it happens. I'm playing the hand I was dealt with, not the one I wish I had.
I was trying to figure out a way around the cost while still remaining technically legal. I don't know your laws so I'm just guessing. Here, you can legally manufacture your own sidearm ( of course, the state can interfere with Fed law, or the Feds can call your components "bomb making materials", so it is all a bit murky in reality ).Delete
Grid down trauma care...ReplyDelete
I'm not a medical professional, but assuming a bullet didn't hit an organ or major blood vessel, there is hope for a recovery. Cayenne pepper, poured into the wound, and also taken internally, will help stop the bleeding. I've heard cayenne in a wound is painful, maybe it won't be much worse accounting for the pain from the gunshot? The wound should then be packed with organic raw honey which should stop any infection from taking place. If an infection does get started, you should be able to draw it out with activated charcoal poultices applied to the reddened area. Reportedly during the un-Civil War, there were soldiers that survived through and through chest shots (that missed all organs) that recovered with bed rest and these primitive treatments.
I believe the soldiers from long ago that fought with swords did themselves by placing the handle on the ground, inserting the tip just below the rib cage, and then falling on it. I'M NOT RECOMMENDING THAT AT ALL.
If you like the North American Arms mini revolvers, I recommend the Black Widow model with fixed sights.
And don't forget table sugar as a possible wound treatment if you don't have honey.Delete
My uncle served in Vietnam. Only once, whilst drunk, did he ever tell the real story (every other time it sounded like a great time, full of bar room brawls and being rude to officers). Anyway, one part of the story was coming up onto a friendly village and finding the head honcho's tortured body strung up next to his wifes. The mutilated bodies of the poor guys daughters lying on the floor (obviously raped).ReplyDelete
Then we fast forward to modern days. The Batclan cave (France) victims - tortured. The poor shoppers at the shopping center in that African hellhole - tortured. The Russian kids (can't remember) tortured. The Balkans - tortured.
And before we get all high and mighty. Abu Gharib, Germans at the end of WWII, Japanese at the end of WWII, Gitmo bay.
Get captured post apocolypse? No thanks, it's not a pleasant experience right now, let alone in the post oil die off
Most of my "encounter" conceptually with torture was reading up on AmerIndians. Not pleasant fellows to get captured by. But you make a more relatable case.Delete
Well, I'd prefer a handgun, but a kukri or assengi 'short spear' would make a fearsome weapon I would back away from very easily. The last one is essentially a bayonet on a stick for close quarters battle, a good indoors hallway weapon I would guess.ReplyDelete
The handgun gives you range and noisemaking value though - 'points for that' sez the East German judge :^)
Anon 5:41 - you are mistaken about the .22 Magnum. I've used the round for years on small game and varmints and it definitely has some merit for self defense - the damage is definitely higher with it than the long rifle. It will mess up your day and then some ! In hide-out sized weapons, the .22 Magnum snubbie is much easier to shoot than even a 'mousegun' .380 ACP, recoil wise.
Every caliber around today made in quantity ( cough, cough, 303B ) is most likely still here as it performs adequately. I think some, due to being far less popular ( relatively ), and so being darn expensive, are hard to justify on that basis. I think that was the main point that got me on the magnum. Think the 80/20 rule.Delete
Main selling point to the 22 mag.Delete
It is tiny, but it is a mouse that literally roars.
The muzzle blast is very loud
Yup, muzzle flash from a snub nose is bright indeed, could be used for a signal AND noisemaker in 'lost hiker' scenario.Delete
You mentioned Patton and his role in the Bonus March, but he was following MacArthur's orders who was the true SOB there. Patton was a major where Mac was a general, plus MacArthur showed a pattern of abandoning his troops. From firebombing veterans to leaving his troops to endure the Bataan Death March, he was a real work of fart.ReplyDelete
And, Patton couldn't have refused his orders as illegal?Delete
A few free Kindle books of great quality for y'all
I must say, his Red Cliffs book was a huge disappointment-and I've NEVER read anything bad from the author until then.Delete
There's one other problem with the .22 Magnum.ReplyDelete
The case is super thin, I have seen casings damage by them being squeezed too hard or loaded in a magazine.
But, if used in a revolver...?Delete