HIGH CAP RIMFIRE
*note: RDJ-got your insanely generous PayPal. Thanks!
*
Sorta #3 in kinda a
series.
Remember, and please never
forget, you old geriatric sumbitches, the logistics of the apocalypse don’t
change just because ammunition costs a nickel a round rather than a
quarter. Low cost ammo means you can
actually stockpile enough, and that you can practice faithfully with it. It most emphatically does NOT mean that you
go all stupid semi-auto with it. Once
your last rimfire is used, you are back to using a crossbow and that would
really suck if your opponent has any kind of firearm. So don’t friggin waste your rimfire!
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I’m going to repeat
that. Rimfire is affordable to
stockpile. It is NOT meant to waste
either in practice or in actual use. A
high capacity magazine in your rimfire weapon is the same as taking a big
stinking smelly crap on your stockpile of ammunition, then taking one of those
fecal stained rounds and using it on yourself.
If you be High Cap’n, you be dumb ass’n.
I didn’t just say you shouldn’t use a semi-automatic in rimfire, now did
I? As opposed as I am to semi-auto
because of logistics, I can’t actually see applying that down to the level of
the 22 rifle. Because no matter how good
you are with the round/rifle, you are already handicapped by the low power
round and you shouldn’t necessarily further that by using a bolt action.
*
Let me explain further to
alleviate misunderstandings. A bolt
action rimfire should be a one shot, shoot and scoot. A semi-automatic rifle would be used to
engage multiply targets comfortably ( not multiple shots per target, rather
single shots at multiple targets ). With
a bolt action, I would not advise being without a revolver, just in case you
are forced into a short range engagement situation. With a semi auto rifle you would probably be
okay without the sidearm. So, really,
you are probably going to spend less on a quality Rugar 10/22 than you are a
decent bolt rimfire along with a rimfire revolver ( even factoring in magazines
).
*
Alas, the mechanics of
brain chemicals and semi-automatics still remains the same whether you use a
rimfire or a center fire weapon. Which
is why I’m advising either a bolt, or a Rugar.
A bolt action forces MOST people who will be incapable of fire
discipline under stress to husband their shots.
With a semi, the brain is screaming in fright- shoot, shoot, shoot! With a bolt action, in theory the brain is
screaming, wait! Don’t waste the
shot! I only get one chance here. If you intentionally restrict your magazine
capacity, you hopefully land somewhere in the middle. The Rugar 10/22 is not only one of the most
reliable, so is its ten round rotary magazine.
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When I begrudgingly
approve a semi-auto, I usually mention the SKS.
It has no extra mags to buy, AND hopefully with only ten rounds you won’t
waste as much under stress since a stripper clip for the average shooter is no
quick tactical mag change. With the
Rugar, hopefully the small capacity mag will induce discipline in your
shooting. Yet it still gives you the
extra shots that might be critical if you can’t escape detection. At short ranges you then have the quick fire
nine rounds of a rimfire revolver.
Remember, when you use your weapon for a secondary role, you are always
compromising. Nothing is perfect outside
a specialty role.
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If you think you need
twenty-five round mags for your rimfire, what I hear you saying is that you
want to shoot each target multiple times.
NEIN! Verbotten! There are too many rabid people inhabiting
your oxygen supply. There are going to
be nearly as many rabid dogs. You need
to husband your ammo supply even before the apocalypse. If you “cover me” or “suppressive fire” or
heaven forbid “multiple tap”, you will run out of ammunition too soon and die
quicker than normal. End of story. Semi is for multiple TARGETS, not multiple
HITS. Every kernel of grain you feed a
homeless orphan is a day closer to starvation and every expended round is one
day closer to bringing a knife to a gun fight.
*
So, semi’s are needed
because of multiple threats. Why did I
say you need semi because the rimfire is anemic, yet you shouldn’t shoot each
target more than once? It isn’t the
stopping power that is the issue. It is
the range. While a two hundred yard shot
is possible, even with practice you are better off keeping things at 100 yards
if possible. The injury will be higher
since there is still more power behind the round. And while a hundred yards SHOULD be enough
distance to keep you safe, it gives you less time to escape. It might be prudent to fire and hit multiple
targets just to keep fewer shooters coming after you.
*
Since the rimfire has no
recoil ( hence being much easier on an inexpensive scope ), shot placement is
even easier. Some fools might rush
forward anyway, but generally a neck, torso or groin shot should keep most
folks from pursuit. You shouldn’t even
need all of the ten round magazine to make good any escape. The rifles weight is negligible and that also
helps us older users stay in the combat game longer ( scope and no recoil are
also going to be more important as we age, bravado and machismo aside ). And yes, an AR does most of this just as
well, at better ranges and with better stopping power. But you pay much extra for that. The rimfire is for the non-exceptional
shooter. Which is most of us.
*
And those of us who are
poor. Which is most of us. I don’t recommend it as your first choice for
an apocalypse gun. But it certainly
merits consideration as something far more than a rodent or kids gun.
END ( today's related link http://amzn.to/2xsIGx5 )
* By the by, all my writing is copyrighted. For the obtuse out there
I've got two 10/22's and five 10 rnd mags for each, along with five 25 rnd Ruger mags for each also.
ReplyDeleteSometimes that larger mag comes in handy when things are happening too fast for reloads.
I've an extreme amount of 22 lr in reserve too.
Nothing wrong with suppressive fire either when circumstances require. Don't do any good to save bullets if ya dead.
Stock em deep cuz ya gonna waste em at times. 10k is a good number for each.
Which with seven weapons that use 22 around here, means I'll be buying for the rest of my life lol.
And yes there is one bolt , single shot rifle in the mix .
Suppressive fire does indeed work very well. It is used successfully. And every cheese dingus NOT stocked deep will be able to enjoy its effects. For a very short time. Logistics trump tactics. Be your own warehouse ( but hurry, the last rimfire drought lasted a decade ) or learn to run like Forrest.
DeleteThe Ruger 10/22 is a fine choice, but I hear and read good feedback about the Mossberg 702 Plinkster as well. And priced more reasonably, in fact can get two Plinksters ($140 ea.) for the price of one Ruger. Read the reviews and judge for yourselves.
ReplyDeleteGun Tests rated it less accurate than the Marlin or Rugar. And it ain't like Rugar is all that great to begin with. Not sure how much that matters if you are off just slightly. It is only 100 yards max in most instances. I'm sticking with what I have, tube fed semi and bolts, and I'm in open desert here. I doubt I'm alive past my Enfield ammo, but if not by then there will be a lot less bullets in the air and I don't feel I'm handicapped.
DeleteYou gotta buy it new, with a warranty, and run the hell out of it right away. If it's going to fail you want it to do so immediately so it can be remedied, at no or little cost to you. When I got my Marlin 60 I left the gun store and went right out to an isolated range and put 200 rds through it. Zeroing the scope and hard sights, etc. That was almost 15 years ago and now, with over 2000 rds through it, it still shoots like a pro. Would you buy a new 4x4 truck and drive it once then sit it in the garage forever?
DeleteI have a bolt tube fed Marlin 81 that is old school but very practical. The rifle accepts long rifle - longs - shorts in any order so is very forgiving on what it eats. Many rifle nowadays only feed long rifle reliably or require manual single bullet insertion into chamber to work, then rinse repeat.
DeleteAnother tube fed auto you don't hear about is the Remington Nylon 66. Great reputation - Tom Frye did a job shooting aerial blocks with that model. Internet search that to see the results - not sure many current rifles could match that feat.
People don't let their trucks sit because both of the initial cost and the monthly cost-they feel they have to justify the cost by inventing reasons to use it. Your point is taken, of course. Just couldn't leave that one be :)
Delete*
Do they still make the Rem. 66? Thought that was discontinued.
The Remington 66 (nylon stock) had a 20 year run from 1969 to 1989. 14 shot tube feed and get this, weighed 4 lbs. yowza!
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Nylon_66
BTW, I said Marlin 60 not Remington 66.
The first gun I ever fired, and which is now owned by my sister, when I was 4 yo in 1959 was a Remington model 572 tube .22 semi-auto rifle with a 4x scope. Reel sweet. It gave me a fever and there is no cure apparently.
The first gun I ever fired was 98 rounds through the FN-Mag as a teenager at an army open day. From a bipod standing in a trench hitting man sized targets was literally childs play
DeleteMy first gun was my dads service revolver, so we'd understand not to mess with it.
DeleteI’m so old that when I was young, our teacher used to read to us for about 10 minutes or so following lunch break. One such book was “Hoagie’s Rifle-Gun”, the tale of a poor Appalachian family.
ReplyDeleteA few excerpts from the book:
“Seems like I’m always thinking about something to eat, Hoagie said.”
“Maybe Pa will bring store food tonight said Ira.”
“Maybe so said their mother. I’ve been thinking all day that maybe he found work. If he didn’t, there’s nothing to eat except the potatoes in the patch.”
“Maybe I’ve got time to take the rifle and scare something up for supper, Hoagie said.”
“You can try said his mother. She looked at the little gray cardboard box where the shells were kept. She pushed them around with her forefinger; not many left she said. Rabbits are getting harder and harder to find, because everyone around here has to hunt for food”. (long story short: Hoagie took a bad shot and wasted one of the few shells that he had left).
Hoagie’s Rifle-Gun: A blast from the past, and a peek into the future.
Cont.
ReplyDeleteThe 10/22 is a decent gun with a variety of optional accessories. I like the lightweight folding stocks that are available. I have a few of the large capacity mags in both 25 and 50 round. Neither is as reliable as the original 10 shot mag, and both tend to stop feeding short of the magazine being depleted.
Stockpile like crazy, but remember, target practice is a pre-collapse sport. You will not be doing this post-collapse. This means a measure of common sense must be applied. Do not take risky, far off shots, or shots at running game. Do not shoot at waterfowl in flight and risk a precious shotgun shell. And if you do and it doesn’t pay off, expect to be following the Hoagie and family weight loss diet post collapse.
Never even heard of the book. My school days book memories were around forth grade. James And The Giant Peach and such. Still good stories, but teaching 'Murica was once NOT great? Teaching thrift and saving in a consumer economy?
DeleteYeah, James and The Giant Peach was another one read to us kids. I’m not surprised that you’ve never heard of it. It’s a rather obscure book even for those in our age bracket. There were other parts that I left out, such as Hoagie’s pants having been mended so many times that you could see light shine through between the patches. The book is copyright 1970, but I’m not sure what era it’s supposed to take place. I just thought that it was a fitting example of what you talk about here.
DeleteProbably another great example is “Where The Red Fern Grows”. The original, not the remake. There’s a book too (also read to us by our teacher). Damn; teachers were actually okay people once upon a time 😀
Now that I think about it, our 6th grade teacher would tell us stories of him being poor in the city. Can't remember his age, but it could have been Depression era-he was up there in years ( as well as a tike could judge age ). Had a navy vet eighth grade teacher, he was cool with all his stories, and a High School teacher who reinforced my love for social studies, he'd read from the Wall Street Journal ( it was worth a crap back then ). One history teacher who loved his subject-very few "dates and leaders" BS. Yep, got a lot of cool ones.
DeleteKinda related but kinda OT
DeleteI note to my wife whenever we are watching video (movies / news / doco) from the US, I note the poor condition of the roads.
Maintenance of infrastructure is a real killer on budgets. It's easily put off for a long time but just like not servicing your car eventually something will give and that something will invariably be expensive and give out when you're broke.
I think that's where the West is at the moment. Nobody wants to pay, nobody wants to make the hard decisions (seriously? just cut back on overseas adventures & re-invest in our own nations but then there's no medals or glory in fixing existing bridges)
Yep that's totally OT. Maybe a prompt for an article? Feel free to steal it
Speaking of .22lr
DeleteMy mother grew up on a cattle property. She told me that her sister and her were told to greet anyone with a 22lr under their arms that came up to the station house & the men folk were out. The visitor wasn't to step onto the porch.
Pull the spring out of the mag and *stretch it* a little bit. Careful. Then with a shop rag, wipe some graphite dust around the inside of the mag before putting the spring and follower back in. Do not leave ammo in magazines for more than a week or 2 before rotating them out to prevent spring fatigue.
DeleteDingo-it isn't merely about budgets. First, the oft sited figure of "fourteen trillion to fix all our infrastructure" is a Band-Aid. No way on gods green earth it is that low. The roads alone should be more than that given the per mile cost. Second, there isn't enough physical commodities to do so. Third, the infrastructure built 110 years ago isn't always even accessable to work on. Forth, it isn't just ore or money but also energy. It is a nice thought imperial occupation forces coming home would repair everything, but if they leave, we will lose 60% of our oil. And all we have NOW wouldn't be enough to start rebuilding. And fifth, zero political will even with no other factors. Too many beaks getting wet with high construction costs.
DeleteDang, that brings back memories! 4th grade teacher was a hippy, and used to bring his guitar in and sing folk songs to us kids (mostly Peter, Paul, and Mary from what I recall). A teacher such as this might not seem odd now, but this was in 1975, and few teachers were hippies, even then. 5th grade teacher was at one time, somehow affiliated with the movie industry, and claimed to have a background part in the original King Kong movie, if memory serves me correctly.
DeleteThis was an older suburb in the bay area. You would sometimes see the remnants of an old farm right in the middle of a neighborhood, complete with the original 19th century home, barn, perhaps an acre or so of land, and often still inhabited by the descendants. A little slice of country in the city if you will.
This one old dude across from my grandfather, lived in such a place, with the remnants of a fig orchard left over. He didn’t much care for children picking his figs, and would run them off with his old double barrel antique shotgun. People then saw it for what it was; just old Joe being his cantankerous self. Today, there would be 3 swat vans, a few helicopters, and few dozen patrol cars, and in the end, old Joe would have ended up looking like a piece of Swiss cheese.
I think my forth grade was the last time they allowed corporal punishment. So, you could whip then, or threaten to shoot them, and they behaved themselves. Now, no fear, no good behavior. Yet aren't adults expected to be on super deluxe best behaviors at all times? Don't look at cleavage, don't drop N-bombs. Staying out of the ghetto is racial profiling. I think the main issue is nobody has a sense of humor anymore.
DeleteI want 30 rd magazines in my AR because I want to quickly shoot 30 people in the head at varying distances if the need arises.
ReplyDeleteOut back there are (8) 1/2" thick steel plates 12" in dia and each hangs on a hinge suspended from a steel pipe. The first one is straight ahead 50 feet away. The 2nd one is about 20' to the right and about 75' away. The 3rd is about 20' to the left of the 1st one and about 100' away, etc. Using various positions, standing, prone, 1 handed, left handed, sitting, etc., my neighbor and I practice hitting all 8 as fas as we can, back n forth, over and over again. Each steel plate has a 2" dia glow in the dark white spot in the middle and we do this in the dark too.
He and I HONESTLY believe the bottom is going to fall out in our lifetimes and that it is up to us to do whatever it takes to save our own lives and those of our family members. There is no other way.
I am not wealthy, not even close. But I do earn some money, and as I described before, I have eliminated almost everything that does NOT facilitate my ability to deal with what lies ahead, and that means acquiring the necessary equipment and using it as much as I can so that I can do any of it in my sleep. Perimeter guard for example.
Any nonsense attributed to someone losing their cool and blowing all their rounds into a tree or something has no place in this discussion as I've mentioned before. A 14 yo boy is terrified of pussy but a 28 yo man has no such fear because he's been down that road many times and is confident in his abilities.
If you get any gun at all and do not use it regularly and if you are prone to overtly nervous sissy fits than a gun might not be the best choice. Maybe a slingshot or a swiss army knife is more suited.
With no regular practice even a single shot .22 will get you killed. With practice you'll be able to confidently handle any gun you own. They key here is the *practice* part, not the type of gun. It's appalling this even needs to be said. Do any men exist any more? Maybe no one takes the coming collapse seriously enough to consider the notion that they may have to save their own life. I'll pick up their ammo....
The amount of practice you do should give you the muscle memory to overcome shock. On almost all combatants, police and soldiers, they do not get enough and spray and pray. I'm going with this REGULAR amount of training, not a one off such as yourself. Budgeting for training is another matter. You have correctly identified the problem, but few will share your assessment as they believe both their abilities and equipment will deliver far more than is realistic.
DeleteMy fear is tunnel vision, focusing too hard in one area, and I'm working on it. Problem is, for most of my life I've focused on small things right in front of me in my architectural design business - drawing table in the old days and my monitors in recent decades. I could be mowing em down out to 600 yds in front of me and one of them sneeks in from the side and shivs me between the ribs. No good.
DeleteThis is funny as hell, dude. I just wrote two articles this morning on the dangers of specialization. I'm just as guilty as anyone, only recently tentatively branching out into other areas.
DeleteRegarding the knock down power of the .22, I have never heard of anyone that has been shot in the face with one and went on about their business as usual. Most likely you have messed them up for a long time. With a semi you might ne able to get 2 in that same head and more than likely he's done for.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've heard all the stories about krak addicts takking 15 slugs from a .40 and getting up and wringing peoples necks left and right. If I didn't see it it didn't happen. My cousin, however got shot in the left cheek bone by a .22 and 40 years later he's still messed up. When it happened, in about 1970, he was in the hospital for weeks and recovery took months.
If one doesn't drop him, that's why you have 10,000 more, and if that Ruger 1/22 is your platform you'll certainly deliver the goods. Unless you just sit it in the corner and forget about it.
You shouldn't have to worry about using more than one to drop him. Either you leave, or track him until he bleeds/passes out and finish it, as the situation arises. If he chased you out of your home, come back later in a few days after infection set in.
DeleteRuger makes/made good and highly cost-effective weapons. The automatic pistol (and MkII/MkIII) is an excellent target trainer for youth/new shooters. The SR-22 is a good pack pistol. Spend plenty on the correct holster for you. I enjoy my 10/22 Takedown, but it's fussier than a standard 10/22. With a stamped short-barrel and a suppressor, a takedown would be great with a FLIR for killing rats in dark alleys. Oh, wait, that would be like nine grand and need subsonic ammo.
ReplyDeleteOregon probably has the cheapest 10/22's anywhere at Bi-Mart, and no sales tax. Blued/wood model is frequently $159 + background check. Stainless synthetic $199. Several extra 10 round magazines is a good idea since they don't stick out from the action like the 25 round magazines. 3 ten round mags pack smaller than one 25 round magazine.
Upgrade the extractor and the hold-open bolt from Volquartsen. Get extra springs and pins. Cheap little parts for the Ruger so you can not buy the super-excellent VQ carbines. Use some paint on your 10/22 to make it less shiny. Mask the action and optics with blue painters tape. matte black/grey/red primer, tan brown and green flat "camo" paint may make it less obvious when in shadows. Paint for your expected operating area. No gloss or semi-gloss! No clear-coat!
Let your weapon dry for at least a week after you can't smell solvents to let the paint harden.
Buy M-60 ammo cans and put at least 2000 rounds of .22lr each in them in the original packaging. I'm rotating cans that I paid $5 for the can and $16/1000 for the ammo in 1997. 20 years later, I'm pleased to pay $15 for the can and $80/1000 for .22lr. It that the money has depreciated to 25%, not that "prices" have gone up. My income has also gone to a much lower plateau, so I just spend less on everything else (Find it Free!) and maintain caloric intake.
Don't lose weight! PT more, but eat good food too.
pdxr13
I'd probably have to agree on the inflation in rimfire. Which makes a nickel about max for the inflation only tax. Any higher, it is commodity shortages. So, Oregon, LibTard State, California North, gets the cheapest rifle? What's up with that? Do lefties only buy rimfires? All else are Yuckie Evil guns?
DeleteGood info on that 10/22, I'm keeping it for future reference as I plan on getting one. Trying to find a Ruger MKI too. I had one back in the 70's and then let it go. The I's are better than the II and III (too much plastic). They are hard to find for reasonable money. I currently have 1000 rds of 22 in the original boxes in a std plastic ammo box and I used a fine sharpie to put the date on each box when I bought it.
DeleteAgree that Volquartson makes some nice bolt on stuff for 10/22. My 22/45 also benefited from their stuff.
DeleteYet Ruger brand mags are the best in all my Ruger's including the Mini 14
While quality mags are as important as quality guns, you can also go way too far assigning too much importance on the number of mags. Rawles went from the FN-FAL to the HK clones to deep stock cheap mags. Did he sacrifice operating system quality? Sorry, off topic of the rimfire. Just something that popped into my head.
Delete