Simple Shelter Options – An Addendum
This
will be a short update, and is more of an afterthought. Some years back I had
worked at a landscape supply center. One of the items that we carried was sod
rolls. This is pretty much what it sounds like: Grass rolls that were grown and
cut out in strips with a special sod cutter, rolled up for transport, and then
rolled out into a lawn, for those that wanted an instant lawn (typically
wealthy yuppie types).
Long
story short, we used to throw away all kinds of this stuff. Often times the
customer over ordered, or for whatever reason, didn’t pick it all up. But we
easily threw out enough, that over the years I could have built several sod
dugouts. Now of course, the thought hadn’t occurred to me at the time 😕
So
what I’m getting at here is that for those that would consider building a sod
dugout, this could be a very low cost option. Check with the local sod farms if
there are any, or inquire at the local landscape supply centers. I do believe
that Lowe’s and Home Despot, carry it as well, or at least did at one time. I
know that in the case of my previous employer, we were all too happy to have
people come by and take it off our hands, since we had to get rid of it
ourselves. Scrounge a few windows and a door, and minus your physical labor,
you’ve got yourself a free home.
Now
admittedly, at this point in time, I do not have much information under my belt
with regards to sod house construction, aside from the very basics. For
instance, I do not easily see how you would be able to keep one water tight,
but figure that there must be a way to do so. But I will be researching this
topic in further detail, in the near future.
Meant to include this image in my initial post:
ReplyDeleteSod dugout on south Loup river, Custer county, Nebraska, 1890. load of sod on wagon to repair roof.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7019/6594611445_c2294d674b_b.jpg
Hmm, while you are at Lowe's or Home Depot, see if they have any broken bags of concrete cheap for any posts or beams needed for the roof, and swing by a few sign shops for old billboard signs to help waterproof it all.
ReplyDeleteYou might be on to something.
This stuff is getting way beyond pathetic.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, some sod, some cast off windows, some shovel work and ta-daaa...instant home sweet home. Even my sons tree house I built 30 years ago from pallets was better'n that.
If this is your idea of life after, you may as well just stay where you're at.
Clue: Trade what you're wasting money on today for what you plan to keep forever tomorrow.
I think you miss the point that the more ideas now, no matter how elementary or unacceptable, all can be mixed and matched for better ideas tomorrow. In conjunction with other earth sheltered ideas, this certainly has some merit.
DeleteI agree, especially if you can combine a partial underground shelter (maybe 4' under top of grade) with the remainder above ground. Use glass block units for allowing extra light to illuminate. Those units are tough and last practically forever.
DeleteHere is just one thought on mixing ideas. If you couldn't insulate or are almost out of money, you take an RV and just stack sod all around it. Then the only cost is roof insulation and rafters.
DeleteJim, if you are almost out of money then how are you going to have an RV? Further, if you did have an RV why destroy it by packing dirt all around it? Have you priced insulation, and rafters and visqueen lately? How are you going to buy all this stuff with little or no money? That's why my suggestion above about changing bad spending habits to direct limited income toward a worthy end result.
DeleteSorry, but I just don't see the value in discussing things that are just flat out wrong. I'm a building professional so maybe it's a "me" thing. But I don't think so.
Step 1: Go to Lowes today and buy as many 2x4's as you can afford and have them (metal, not plastic) band them together so they won't warp. Then store them in your garage or dry place.
Step 2: Now that you know how much 2x4's cost, the next time you have some leftover coin do the same thing. While there find out the prices on various types of insulation and plywoods. Keep a list of what materials cost so you can work toward your goal, with some focus.
Step 3: Buy 4 bags of #3000 Sakrete and store them in a dry place. Etc., etc.
Point is, don't dig a hole in the ground that you'll die in just to "have" something now, but rather assemble a plan and work it in such a way that it is a positive thing rather than a prison of despair. If the bottom falls out in 6 months you'll have what you have and work from there. But if it doesn't fall out at that time you keep collecting materials and storing them and working toward your goal.
I just bought 18 sheets of 1/2" plywood on Sat so I know how expensive this stuff is. But I have a goal and digging a hole is never going to be part of the game. Ever. My mind is better than that. And so is yours. I know it. BTW, I looked at my Tracfone today, cause it made a weather alert sound. First time I looked at it in over a week. There's a message in that sentence, see if you can find it. Priorities.
Damn, lost my lengthy reply. I'll make this one short. I was assuming one already had an RV or you live in an area they go cheaply.
DeleteSee? A good suggestion from GS. There is a certain period in site development during which storing simple building materials, such as 2x4s and plywood, is a very good idea. The need of such material is obvious and predictable during the construction phase, but quite unpredictable during the phase between construction and The Event, the closing of the gates and the hunkering down
DeleteNote that unrestrained 2x4s will warp, so the notion of having them banded is very useful.
We even keep scraps of wood and metal, solutions to problems that are not yet obvious. But then, we are at the stage where major construction is complete (I believe), and the major task is maintenance.
Mother Nature is indeed a bitch, always finding the hidden flaw.
Sounds like some one calling themselves a ghost sniper is too good for this blog and should get back in the land rover and keep driving up north to rawlesland and be amongst own kind. Every other week it is something not good enough or boasting of doing it better, step off, jeez.
ReplyDeleteCome on, we can't be completely Ego Chamber here. He is no more critical than me. Also, please be careful of the "criticize ideas not people" rule. I really don't want another war here. GS is allowed one snarky remark and then I'd like an end to it, please and thank you.
DeleteLord Bison. GS and your minions wouldn't meet in real life meat space. Your minions are lucky to have a break action shotgun, a box of shells and buckets of wheat.
Delete"lucky to have a break action shotgun, a box of shells and buckets of wheat." Why do you speak as if this is a bad thing? :)
DeleteGS is quite full of himself, it is true. Just ignore it. Generally, he's a bore, but occasionally a spark may be struck in your mind and henceforth feed itself.
DeleteAny idea may be an inspiration, however foolish.
I've seen, and sheltered under, many a thatched roof in Africa. They need to be renewed every couple of years, but they work well, especially if you have several wives to do the gathering. They are simple; just eighteen or so inches of reeds.
DeleteAnd adobe houses are quite common in the southwest of America. Walls of dried mud flats with a little straw for strength, brick or stone on sand for a floor and roofs of logs (vegas), lots of perpendicular smaller branches, and dirt. Of course, this would not work in a wet climate, but does withstand occasional rain storms. Talk to some Civil Engineer about flat roofs. Not much to know, but what there is, is very important.
My income is far, far less than what you apparently imagine. And my income, because of it's nature, is very sporadic, and in the very coldest months is almost nothing. I believe, on a yearly basis, my income is less than minimum wage, but I'm not sure. It is all tax free though, so there's that.
DeleteBecause of the dismal nosedive my income took when we moved to the woods 12 years ago I have had to learn on my own how to leave better for less. Much much less. This requires prioritizing expenditures, determining what is important, and staying focused on goals.
Most of the physical stuff I have now I acquired before moving here and because of the loss of income there has been a constant trading of my stuff for money or other things I'd rather have. I had $20k worth of vintage audio equip. when we moved here. Now? All gone. And on and on. My main work vehicle was bought new by me 28 years ago, an S10, and I drive it everyday. I also have a 2001 Blazer 4x4. I have to save for months to pay for the insurance and I am very scruple about the gas I use. It's doubtful there is anyone else in this group that can tell a sadder financial history story than myself. Considering the price of land in Montana now, the nitwit that suggested I move to Rawls country is stupider than he sounds. Onward.
4:56-again, attacking people rather than ideas. Come on guys, I don't want to start deleting.
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5:07-isn't the problem with adobe the fact you need clay? It isn't just dirt, right? Heavier, you need to make bricks and what about seperating the clay from sand and dirt?
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GS-Rawles country is about all Too High Priced. I guess you could do eastern Oregon. Not sure why you'd want to of course. Thank you for the sarcastic reply, now we can move on and return to civility. Note to those making rude remarks to GS-is it really too much to ask that we remain constructive? Attacks on those outside of the loyal minions is directed outside the tribe, and hence allowed. Civility towards your tribe members please. You don't have to like others in your tribe, but you do need to work at keeping the peace. It is a small price to pay for social lubricant. Let this be practice for our inevitable return to decentralized groups.
Dirt suitable for adobe brick should have a high enough clay content to help the brick resist moisture and provide strength to the brick. The problem is that dirt with too much clay in it will crack upon drying. If dirt has too much clay, one must add sand to it or dried grass; sand is the better additive. Dirt with too little clay will mean that the dried brick will be too brittle to use.
DeleteFortunately, the margin for error is rather wide. Dirt from the side of a hill usually works; avoid dry wash beds or valley floors where sandy dirt has collected due to gravity and erosion. The tops of hills will usually be good for dirt. Dirt from a hill that has lasted a hundred thousand years or so without being washed away will probably be good enough to make adobe bricks out of--- that is, most hills that have not been man-made.
The best way to know if a pile of dirt is good enough to make adobe bricks out of is to make test bricks--- three or four will do. If the brick is dropped from four or five feet onto one of its corners and there is little damage, the dirt will very likely be usable for building.
One may also mix a bucket of dirt with a little water and see how well the dirt adhears it itself--- if it can be molded and rolled into balls, but pulls apart with only a little effort, then it is worth trying test bricks with the dirt. If it pulls apart too easily, or does not form into balls easily, then the sand content is probably too high and the dirt will probably not be worth using for test bricks.
It might take three or four tries to find the right dirt mixture, or you might stumble upon a working source of dirt the first time you look. Remember that you will need a large pile of dirt for a modest sized building.
Source: http://desertphile.org/adobe/brick.htm
Most excellent-info I didn't know.
DeleteGood stuff, thanks a lot. I’ve considered earth bags before, but knew that the composition was critical. Your information is most valuable.
DeleteSod is great on the prairie, but no so much in deserts. In arid areas earthbags are probably a good substitute for sod, though not quite "free" as sod could be. It might be worth stocking seed to grow a plot of sod in an emergency. Maybe another use for wheat? These days we have an advantage over the old sod-busters since we have plastic sheet and tarps. Adding these between sod layers should make a dugout a lot drier and more comfortable inside. The trick is to use what you have. Dry stacked stone worked for my Scottish ancestors, but what they wouldn't have given for $10 worth of poly tarp!
ReplyDeleteScrew the tarps! For the price of one quality one you can buy half a roll of the good plastic. Sure, not UV proof, but tarps seem to be crap anymore, for the money.
DeleteGood tips, thanks. Yes, I definitely plan on using plenty of plastic sheeting, and some other modern material, regardless of what I end up building. I am actually considering the earth bag dugout, but ultimately, I will probably go with whatever is the easiest, yet effective alternative.
Delete#40lb cannister of spray on insulation. It's waterproof, sticks to everything, has an R value 6 per inch of thickness, is insect and vermin proof, lasts forever, and is easy to repair.
DeleteGS-I understand the spray has many viable uses, but I question if it is cheaper to go with the rigid sheets instead. I thought I remembered the cannisters being several hundred bucks each. Forgive me if I'm talking out of my ass-I could be remembering incorrectly how much the spray covers or the R value of the sheets.
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5:10-the most I've gotten out of tarps with almost no direct sun and mostly covered by pallets is five years.
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3:17-not the easiest, other than easiest underground shelter, for the dugout, but I think the best return on your labor and investment for insulation value. Don't want to discount the earth temperature battery effect.
Jim, yes the spray is more money but it is self contained, that is, it can be applied in ways not available to other methods. Piled dirt, stacked stones, adobe, straw, etc., all of that can be sprayed AND waterproofed in one step. With practice a smooth surface can be achieved for applying more resilient materials such as wood, or ferocrete, or left as is and a few coats of paint. Spray can also be applied to the inside for a double whammy. No cutting, no glueing, no nailing, just spray and pray. LOL
DeleteI was going to use spray a few years ago for the underside of the floor system of our house, in the crawl space. But the vertical space was very limited and I was concerned with how much would be wasted due to firing upward in such a close situation so I went with R30 foil faced batt instead. The foil was a few hundred bux less cost. The house stays warmer now with less heat loss through the floor. Remember, cold always flows to hot. A cold floor transfers through the wall studs making the walls cold too. Rugs help but the insulation helped much more.
Yeah, I didn't insulate my B-POD floor and regret that. Luckily, I built the walls on concrete blocks, THEN added the floor last. I could easily tear it up and improve it. It won't help the walls, granted. But winter is a lot longer than summer here and anything will help warming my feet to keep me warmer.
DeleteThanks for the replies. Since I’ve posted this update, I’ve had the chance to investigate a little more, what’s involved in building a sod house. It’s much harder than I had anticipated, but for the person that is willing to do the work, the sod house is a very low cost alternative, and is not to be dismissed. After all, this was the only option for many of the pioneers heading west to the fearsome prairies following the 1862 homestead act. I was also under the impression that most of these sod homes were built as “sod dugouts”, but apparently this was not the case, and typically a sod home and a dugout were two different things, generally speaking.
ReplyDeleteSome great tips in the comments, thanks. If I were to take on a project like this, I would definitely spend some money for a roof upgrade beyond the basic design. The glass block suggestion is also a good one.
When I posted this, I was just spit ballin. Personally, I would probably build a wooden box, or find an existing item that I could bury. In either case, both would be reinforced, and only partially buried (Leave the top few feet above ground, covered over with straw flakes, and a light layer of mounded earth).
Here's an idea I've had for a cheap concrete underground desert house. Dig a 4' deep hole, in an area with good drainage, about 8'x10'. For better working ergonomics in the finished structure, but less head room, you can dig it only 30" or 36" deep instead. This will be your standing/walking area in the house. The reason you don't want to go deeper than 4' is because in my area, masonry walls, free standing or below grade, are required to be engineered and have a permit. Maybe there's a good reason for this, so don't go deeper than 4'. Use your 8x8x16 concrete blocks and make a full perimeter (basement) wall so the dirt/sand doesn't slough in. Extend another 3' in all directions with another 4' concrete block wall. So you have the original 8'x10' wall, 30-48" deep below grade, with another 4' block wall, 14'x16', at grade level, surrounding it. Depending on how deep you made your initial excavation, you'd have head space of 78-96". Use the excavated dirt/sand to pile against the above grade 4' wall for insulation and camouflage. Use 2x12's on the roof with painted metal roofing matching the color of your dirt for rainwater collection. Insulate the roof to the max. Your entry door would only be 4' tall at the max (remember it's above grade). A shorter door with a concrete header would make the structure stronger. You'd want at least one window in the door or front wall. So now you have a box over a box, neither masonry wall is particularly stressed, and you have a 3' wide table/bed/workspace all around the perimeter of your 8'x10' standing area. That should be plenty of space for any shelving systems and supplies you would want to store, and should be energy efficient enough to be survivable winter and summer. Just an idea I've been thinking about over the years, not sure if my word picture translated across or not.
ReplyDeletePeace out
Thanks for the detailed reply. I think I get the gist of what you’re saying. It sounds similar to the Storey’s, Build Your Own Underground Root Cellar publication that I purchased a few years back. It’s based on the 8”x8”x16” blocks as well. I think you have a point on the excavation not being any deeper than 4’, because this is what the Storey’s publication states as well. So it seems that this is code in many parts of the country. With the Storey’s plans, you dig down 4’, and the walls protrude above grade for 3’, for a total of 7’.
DeleteIf a permit is required for masonry walls how are they going to let you build anything at all without a septic permit? In my experience, if permits are required the neighbors will rat you out. Many places require the permits to be posted so they are visible from the street and if nosy neighbors are aware building is going on but no permits are posted the anonymous telephone fingers start flying. What did you have in mind for the footing supporting the block walls, and what sort of flooring in the main area and the "shelf"? Large amounts of concrete will have to be trucked in and then there go them neighbors again. Not to mention the expense of all of it. There is no advantage to going underground and lots of expense to do so. The only way I would ever go underground is to dig the hole 12' deep and build all of it sown in there, except the egress ramp, concrete plank the roof, then cover the whole thing with dirt and grass, maybe a vegetable garden. Rather than windows there would be several large TV's (solar/battery powered) on each wall connected to small exterior video camera's scrolling endlessly for security purposes and sanity from cabin fever.
DeleteArtificial light doesn't work against cabin fever underground. Nor does too little indirect light. This from experience. My next underground hovel, if there is one, will be a dugout with ground level windows.
DeleteYou could use glass block units as your light panels. They don't open and close, but are tough and are weight bearing (up to a point). Make the panel as wide or small as you like - they even make glass block the size of a standard brick, in clear or obscure glazing.
DeleteHaving a partial underground shelter makes sense if you live in desert. Far less material to be subjected to wind and sun, and the ground helps insulate you from temperature extremes. An above ground pool bladder (I think) would work great for a circular (think igloo) shelter. I'd install indoor-outdoor carpet to protect the bladder from wear.
The round shape is great camoflauge, blending in with trees and small hills in profile and above view.
Hell, even a teepee would work if it has to be here and now. At least if you have straight poles to make it work - constructing PVC pipe sleeves (inserting smaller PVC inside larger pipe to gain strength) would work. The cool thing about this idea is that pipe connectors like tees and elbows can be used to make different shapes. PVC is easy to cut, even without power tools.
Don't forget the minion suggested used billboard material for waterproofing. If it is all you can afford...
DeleteAt one time we used to live in caves.
ReplyDeleteAnd one can infer that a reason existed for moving out of that cave. Maybe some female objected to sharing with a bear. Or it was just uncomfortable.
DeleteAnd pick lice.
DeleteI posit that Bison's minions have no specific boundries of income.
ReplyDeleteI've been coming here since almost day one. Yet not so much for the frugal prepping info , more so for the diversity of ideas which flow.
I find Jim to be a kind soul who loves to share experience.
As my grandma stated, spewing shit only attracts flies , and everybody hates flies.
I like the rule of attack ideas...not commentors.
After all, voting for Trump does not give one the the license to be an asshole.
Thank you for being here brother Jim. Preach it !
I thought voting for Trump was a licence to be a dumbass. I'm kidding! Even if you were only voting against Charlene Manson, bless you.
DeleteI've given up on democracy. Time for a return to the Monarchy. Sucks for you Americans though to be ruled by Burger King.
DeleteWell, since voting is now a farce, monarchy could be no worse. Except, imaging King Obammy, for LIFE! The Burger King zing is priceless! Love it.
DeleteIn the book, The Consequences of Equality, the author lays out some very valid reasons as to why even a monarchy is better than a democracy. A king (Not to be confused with a common dictator) has some very valid reasons for not wanting to place his country in debt, or fight unnecessary wars. The book lays out all of the reasons. One thing’s for sure, nothing could be worse than a democracy full of morons of the variety that exist in modern western countries.
Deletehttps://www.amazon.com/Consequences-Equality-Matthew-S-Battaglioli/dp/1910524883
I'll look into that book. I agree that democracy is complete crap. 51% voting to enslave the other 49. Plus, if the elites like it you know it is bad.
DeleteUmmmmm. Mostly I agree. Nevertheless, the time comes to stop being polite and speak the unvarnished truth. Who knows; it might help the object of your criticism.
ReplyDeleteSocial decisions are one reason I live 'way out here. Hate 'em.
The overriding principle is that this is Jim's turf and we try to obey Jim's regulations. I do, however, admit that GS strains my patience on occasion.
So does the weather and my new puppy. Deal with it.
Cheers.
Unvarnished truth doesn't have to be bad, but its presentation can be. Look at Winston Churchill as an example of one who spoke the truth with class. I don't think I ask my readers too much. For years, all I said was "no N bombs". And that was AFTER years of N Bombs. After twelve years, I've added this civility request, mainly because I'm getting older and far more weary of still playing the adult. Granted, I'd prefer to just have open comments. But the N Bombers ruined that. I appreciate the 99% who do try to play nice for my benefit. After all, it benefits them. If I couldn't use Blogger it wouldn't even be possible to have comments ( past the old school 'comments about last issue published in the next one' ). And comments make my writing much better.
Delete“The reason you don't want to go deeper than 4' is because in my area, masonry walls, free standing or below grade, are required to be engineered and have a permit.”
ReplyDeleteQuestion for Jim, per Peace Out’s post above. Did you by any chance contact the Elko county building dept, to determine if there was such a depth limit prior to digging? I noticed that in the Storey’s root cellar publication (I sent you a copy as well some time back) they also list a depth of 4’ below grade, 3’ above grade. No biggie, as the remainder above grade will be mounded over, but it would be helpful info.
All I knew was you didn't need a permit on a building under 200 sq ft.
DeleteJust sent the below email off to the Elko County Building Dept Jim. I will fill you in on the details if they get back to me:
DeleteHello, I am thinking of building a root cellar, but have a few questions?
How far below grade can I dig until I need a permit?
How large can it be in Sq feet?
Where would I find the information for this at your website, for future reference?
Please keep me advised, thank you.
DeleteI didn't structure my sentence properly. What I was trying to say was if the masonry wall was taller than 4', it requires engineering and a permit. Sorry for the confusion.
DeletePeace out
Thanks for the clarification. I had actually decided a while back that I would stick with the 4/3 rule, meaning 4’ below, 3’ above, then mound over to make up for the above grade part of the shelter. If for no other reason than my advancing age will require it to be as easy on me as possible, and excavating much more than that by hand would not be a realistic endeavor on my part.
DeleteI don't know what your soil is like, but I only get about a foot of top soil that is easy digging, then usually it is packed clay. Amazon has a $190 gas auger I bookmarked in case I ever had to seriously dig again:
Deletehttps://amzn.to/2p1ORSr
Same as your remote Elko lands soil I’d imagine Jim. I suppose that one of the advantages of posting anonymously is that I’m a new poster every time. Ironically, I’m the poster that previously mentioned that I post anonymously due to the way that I felt that that GS was being unfairly attacked a while back. I was the anonymous poster defending him, but then again, I wasn’t being attacked by him at the time :D
DeleteMeant to say “disadvantages” of posting anonymously.
DeleteOne of the ADvantages of posting anon is that I'm kept in a constant state of confusion :)
DeleteThanks again for the mostly helpful and civil replies, everyone. Never would have I imagined that my piddly little guest spot would have generated any controversy, or for that matter, generated comments on par with the most popular posts at this site (not to take anything away from Jim here). Whatever I decide on, it will definitely be earth sheltered, whether or not I go with an above ground building in addition. It will also have to be done on a budget, as my current budget does not allow for much else. At the moment, I’m again looking into 8”x8”x16” cinder blocks, as the primary construction material. The thing is, I’m not too keen on putting too much money into construction, on a $2k piece of junk land. I don’t know what it is exactly, but something about exceeding the cost of the land in improvements, just doesn’t set right with me. I’m sure that there are exceptions, but generally speaking, I’d like to stick to this rule.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't unusual for a guest post to blow mine away in replies. Just like something different for diner, it is more of a treat than the regular fare.
Delete"...it will definitely be earth sheltered..."
DeleteWhy?
I made mine earth sheltered because, high desert. Butt ass cold and effectively no firewood. Without a vehicle traveling long distance, earth sheltered is the only way to survive the winter with a post-apoc minimal heat source like sage brush.
DeleteEven earth sheltered will be miserably cold without some form of added heat.
DeleteThat reason alone drove me south...
Along with ten million others lol
Miserable cold, yes, but worse case not killer cold.
DeletePerhaps, but I’d imagine that it would be quite easy to heat an earth sheltered home, and the requirements would be forgiving. I’m thinking that I might use one of those small stoves that are used in an outfitters tent. I might even design something custom that’s even smaller (Think something that would easily heat the place all winter with a cord or hardwood or less). Sure, you can move somewhere warmer, but warmer means more people, and that’s not an option for me. For Spud, living in Florida might not be that bad, since he could always bug out to the Everglades, where I’d imagine that you would rarely ever run into anyone else.
DeleteSpud is half amphibious so his plan for living in the swamp works well. Us regular folk avoid that place at all costs. The only other reason to move to a hotter clime is you simply don't have the money or ability to dig into the earth to survive. Living in a FL city to survive winters elsewhere will still get you killed, but at least you have a better chance than in a lot of other places. Your only real option for serious conservation of fuel is the mass rocket stove. Cobb, a barrel and some pipe. Close to free. Anyone can build.
DeleteI’m the OP, and I’m enjoying this discussion quite a lot. Hard to let this thread die down, so I’ll probably provide updates along the way. At the moment, I’m debating on whether or not a dugout (so called because it’s dug into the side of a hill) or a pithouse (so called because it’s dug straight into fairly level ground) would be easier. To me it seems that if you could come across a large concrete culvert pipe, or large corrugated pipe (I’m talking at least 6’ in diameter) at a reasonable cost, than a pithouse would be the easier of the two options.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I’ve gathered, you have a pithouse Jim. Speaking strictly for myself, if you were to post another rehash of the details of your construction on your B-pod at a later date, I’d certainly be interested. If you could provide photos, that would be even more grand.
Elko Minion
I really need to find those blog pictures again. Oct, 2012 I THINK.
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